Conspiracy theories are like stereotypes, they exist for a reason.

This is the first time in my life I have heard anyone other than myself say that about stereotypes.

That they're like conspiracy theories or that they exist for a reason?

Yep, if we're all drowning in our own made up bullshit, just outright fabricated nothing, then there should be no reason to make it against the law to THINK about conspiracy theories.

you must have struck a chord, so many downvotes

I was going to add links, but I wanted the first one to be around [ignore you] and wasn't able to find the clip of Dubya telling the world to "ignore the conspiracy theorists" on 9/12/2001.

Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOMKdILRM5I

It was actually in November 2001, but you were close enough.

Thank you. I've been looking for that for about 6 months.

I also like how he completely lied about seeing the plane crash on TV and nothing happens. Nothing to see here citizen, back to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60

Well, that's a pretty broad generalization on all counts.

Many conspiracy theories aren't jokes. Possible govt involvement in 9/11, JFK's assassination, etc are reasonable things to speculate about, especially considering the amount of circumstantial evidence floating around.

Others are complete jokes, due to either a total lack of evidence or the sheer implausibility of the theory. Reptilians and the like fall into this camp.

So, some are jokes, and others aren't.

Agreed. The theories that have a plausible motivation behind them are the ones that stick out the most to me. Reptilians? Please. Pretext for illegal war: worth looking at.

It starts with Pearl Harbor and the country spirals down the shitter from there...

• Pear Harbor - Inside knowledge of attack, WH administration wanted it to get us into the war that the public was against. We are attacked, US public opinion does a 180 and everyone enlists to fight the evil japs and germans.
• Vietnam - President Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin to send Americans off to fight in Vietnam. False war with no threat to USA.
• Iran hostage crisis - Hostages are released literally 5 minutes following Reagan's inauguration on January 20, 1981 ensuring that Regan beat Carter.
• Iran-Contra - US caught smuggling drugs to fund CIA black budget. These drugs go on to USA streets where citizens caught using/transporting/selling are arrested and incarcerated, much to the joy of the ever expanding prison industrial complex. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, worse than China!
• 1993 WTC Bombing - FBI knew and was involved with informant. FBI choose to not use inert explosives and allowed live explosives to be used. CBS News video showing FBI forknowledge.
• Oklahoma City Bombing - US Military has Ryder Truck just before the Murrah blast. Oklahoma TV News stations were reporting that the police and ATF officials were saying that there were more undetonated bombs found in the building. The TV newsmen kept reporting this for hours. Police logs confirmed undetonated bombs were found, and so did FEMA reports. Even Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating, on the morning of the bombing, said, "The reports I have is that one device was deactivated, and apparently, there's another device." You can even watch the video clips from the news online talking about the bomb squad being on-scene disarming the other bombs! The Murrah building was not destroyed by a single truck bomb - the Eglin blast effects study and General Partin's Report prove this is the case.
• 2000 Election (Bush vs. Gore) - Election stolen by Bush, not that it would have changed the things that happened (9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Patriot Act, etc.). Read the dissent from the supreme court justices, it's pretty clear. John Ellis, first cousin to George W. Bush and Florida governor John Ellis "Jeb" Bush was working as a freelance political advisor contracted by Fox News to head their election night "decision desk." Fox News is the first station to call the election and they call Bush the winner. The other stations (CBS, ABC, NBC) follow suit. Florida recounts, Gore is the winner, Supreme Court stops the recount and hands Bush the presidency. Now use electronic voting machines, so there will be no paper trail and recounts to show it's a fucking joke.
• Which leads to 9/11 and a whitewash investigation and the implementation of the war on terror (never ending, with no clear enemy), the loss of our freedoms (patriot act) and expanding police state powers.

So what is next? What are they going to do to us next and who are they going to blame for it? Why would you believe anything the fucking government said? Where is the media? Why aren't they investigating? Currently, six major companies control most of the media in our country.

RIP George Carlin

And yet so many of Icke's comments in areas unrelated to reptillian overlords are rational, well thought out. In my mind, because I can see he has the capacity for rational thinking, I have to take into consideration that perhaps it is I who am simply inexperienced. Or perhaps I lack "spiritual eyes" of sorts that might allow me to see a reptillian's true form. Maybe physically a 'reptillian' will never appear reptillian..

If Icke is enlightened, "reptilian" is an allegory and "spiritual eyes" is a hint at that fact. If he's a crackpot, he's hallucinating (along with anyone else who "sees" them). Icke was doing this stuff long before the current big names (Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, et al), and was saying some stuff about some people who, if he'd not included "reptilian" references, might have "suicided" him. At least... it's worth considering that as a possibility.

Still, just to be safe and (hopefully) not get downvoted into oblivion for this post, I'll say ... I think Icke is "special" (interpret that however you want).

Icke ripped so much of his material from 'real' researchers, as he admits himself in his own books, those who do the work, and don't throw in alien-agendas and reptoid transdimensional science-fiction(and feel-good New Age philosophy, albeit mixed in with a lot of truth.) Materials taken from people like Alan Watt, for example. Icke is a good presenter, I'll give him that, and whatever his true aim/agenda is, he definitely is not stupid.

So are most of the acts on xfactor but you still watch them. its a talent show but there isn't much talent on it and i don't have a tv either but its on youtube etc.

What is "xfactor"? I assume it's television programming of some sort, but I haven't had TV in my home for over a year now.

Conspiracy theories are fueled by paranoia and anxiety. You see too much in minute dealings. Keep looking because eventually you will find something legit, but don't jump to the conclusion that everything is just some large evil plot.

Not everything is some large evil plot. But nothing is what it seems. Some evil things are just plain stupidity. Read legacy of ashes.

but nothing is what it seems

Except for the things that are. Not denigrating conspiracy theories as a whole, but automatically attributing every single occurance in todays world to some higher power is not a constructive thing to do.

Take the Haiti earthquakes for example. Earthquakes have been happening naturally for far longer than the human race has existed. Haiti rests near a major fault line. Earthquakes tend to happen along fault lines. All of these things would seem to point to a natural cause for the quake; in spite of this, a multitude of theories immediately sprung up treating the earthquakes as a definitively man-made act. Pointing out the lack of evidence in support of such an act (and the dearth of evidence against) garnered immediate downvotes.

Point being, attributing every single thing to a malevolent higher power is no different than claiming a god or gods control all aspects of our lives; it discourages real research and truth because it requires a preconception of the "truth" of a situation.

Pointing out the lack of evidence in support of such an act (and the dearth of evidence against) garnered immediate downvotes.

Sometimes, it is not what you say that is important, but how you say it.

My favorite as of late; NK in the Golf launching torpedo's at BP oil rigs!

The topper; Illegal immigrants receiving social security benefits!

All of these things would seem to point to a natural cause for the quake; in spite of this, a multitude of theories immediately sprung up treating the earthquakes as a definitively man-made act.

Relevant

Because cloud seeding (a technology that's been around and used commonly since the 1970's) is exactly the same thing as artificially inducing an earthquake, right?

I was kind of pointing toward the two more relevant points - volcanos (geomanipulation) and the UN not trying to "poo-pooh" it away with mockery, like you just did.

While the fact that we have advanced enough to start considering geo-engineering is interesting in its own right, comparing cloud seeding and carbon sequestration to earthquake induction is like comparing apples and oranges.

Claiming that the UN cautioning against climate-modification projects is somehow relevant to or evidence of artificial earthquake induction is quite simply invalid.

As long as you keep the "cloud seeding" and "climate-modification" included in the focus, sure you can keep brushing it off with a virtual wave of the hand... and hope that someone mentions "chem trails" so you can top off your argument by pointing and laughing.

However, artificial volcanoes and artificial earthquakes aren't that far removed. Which brings back the question of the UN's attention to it. You said it yourself

the fact that we have advanced enough to start considering geo-engineering

• stray not from this, and you'll see the source of conspiracy theorizing. Those who theorize about earthquakes aren't basing it on the fact that we've been cloud seeding for decades... even though you choose to pose that, mockingly, as their basis.

I'm not saying who is right or who is wrong about Haiti or any other earthquake. But, I'm not gonna just dismiss the theories because someone on a forum mocked it by making irrelevant connections which were never connected to the theory in the firs place.

My point is: There's sufficient evidence that geo-manipulation technology exists to a degree that the UN is discussing it.

The minute you drag "cloud seeding" into it (completely unrelated and irrelevant), you're a hair's width away from "chem trails" and the $9.99 kit for how to debunk any conspiracy theory available from amazon (including a free poster explaining precisely how to point-and-laugh for greatest impact).

You don't believe the theory? Fine. Say as much. But you're going beyond that in this discussion, it would seem.

First and foremost, I'm not sure you understand the "artificial volcanoes" bit that you are talking about. It doesn't mean spawning a new volcano, or setting off existing ones. What they are referring to is essentially putting large amounts of particulate matter into the atmosphere, via burning very large amounts of particular materials or wafting it skyward on "steam columns" of evaporating water.

Secondly, you keep coming back to "cloud seeding" as if I am somehow attempting to use it to debunk something. I am not. Cloud seeding (which, incidentally, is the largest part of that UN report) is common, useful, and has nothing to do with chemtrails or any other conspiracy theory.

My point in regards to your post is simply that claiming we are able to artificially induce earthquakes, because we are capable of (much) smaller feats of geoengineering, is illegitimate.

My point in regards to your post is simply that claiming we are able to artificially induce earthquakes, because we are capable of (much) smaller feats of geoengineering, is illegitimate.

And my point is that those "smaller feats" currently have the attention of the UN.

The thing about technology is this: The mainstream public is rarely allowed to see all of what is possible; and, almost invariably, the lab technology (or, as the conspiracy theorists might say "the secret technology") is years, if not decades, beyond what the public knows about (including government officials... including the UN) - the public only ever gets to see little demonstrations of what is yet to come. Trade secrets, etc. all come into play to keep the public from knowing what is possible until a profit mechanism emerges to justify revealing it. This is the mindset of conspiracy theorizing; it is this mindset which has exposed many actual conspiracies; and, it is this mindset which is focused on the earthquake theories. Yes, it's a leap of faith, to a certain extent; but, it's not a wholly unjustifiable one, based on history and the current state (and rate) of technological evolution.

you keep coming back to "cloud seeding"

Only in asking you to leave it out of this, which you keep refusing to do.

I bring up cloud seeding because the report regarding the UN in question (which, by the way, you claimed was relevant to artificially inducing earthquakes, which it is not) is almost entirely centered around it and its variants. I can't very well leave it out and discuss your link, because the report focuses almost exclusively on some form of cloud seeding (yes, even your artificial volcanoes).

Claiming that our ability to put particulate matter into our atmosphere has any bearing whatsoever on our ability to artificially induce earthquakes is simply absurd. In claiming that the report in question is somehow relevant to artificially-induced quakes, you are attempting to link two completely separate fields. Its like claiming that because I can set off a firecracker, I can also set off a nuclear bomb. The scale of the resources necessary alone is vastly different.

Lets look at it this way. To calculate the energy output of an earthquake, we use the equation:

log E = 1.44Ms + 5.24

With Ms being our surface wave magnitude and E being the measure of Joules output.

Using an earthquake with a magnitude 7.3, we end up with an energy output of 5.6494 x 10x15 joules.

So we are clear, that is 5,649,400,000,000,000 joules of energy output from a relatively average earthquake. That's an insane amount of energy, and even assuming much of it is potential energy built up in tectonic plates, it would require a massive investment of energy to unleash.

Is it possible? Probably. So it time travel. Is it at all likely, or remotely linked to atmospheric seeding? Nope. Stop trying to link the two as if they are relevant.

We may be finally on to something here...

and even assuming much of it is potential energy built up in tectonic plates, it would require a massive investment of energy to unleash.

I'm not going to ask for a citation on this, because the terms you used - potential energy - are common enough; and, it's an easy point to address.

Avalanches come to mind.

Some are artificially induced with explosives in order to mitigate the potential for even worse ones later. However, it's also pretty much common knowledge that they can also be triggered spontaneously (like earthquakes)... or by something as innocuous as an automobile's combustion engine backfiring (such things are well documented).

So, I'm pretty sure that an earthquake wouldn't, as you say, "require a massive investment of energy to unleash". Consider, for example, the sheer number of holes the petroleum industry has already predrilled for such a possible use (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some recent earthquakes have been triggered by well-perforation-explosions - where they perforate the pipe, prior to setting the producing well,.. all depending of course on how deep the well is and how close to a faultline and/or specific stressed techtonic plate).

Again, this is the conspiracy mind, filtering through the mists of discussion (i.e., your claim of "require a massive investment of energy to unleash").

But, hey man... now that you're digging out math, I'm gonna have to back out of here. I'm not here to try to talk physics (not being a physicist and all that). Nice chatting with you.

But, hey man... now that you're digging out math, I'm gonna have to back out of here. I'm not here to try to talk physics (not being a physicist and all that).

I.e. now that you're using quantifiable data and I discover that you are actually well informed on this topic, I am going to leave the conversation without ceding my point which has been utterly destroyed.

Well done. Classic bullshit.

My point has not been destroyed. Throughout my portion of the discussion, I stayed on message about defending the right to pursue such theories, and the mundane methods by which these theories emerge.

I know Pfmohr2 obviously had the agenda of debunking, and now you write as if I were somehow trying to validate the theory... and you play upvote-judge-jury-executioner-and-mortician with one snide remark.

Well done. Classic bullshit.

Right back at ya, bro.

I'm concedeing the point that I'm unable to discuss the quantifiable data, sure.

You're just being a dick.

p.s. I frequent this forum to both:

a) learn,

and...

b) protect my right to speak my mind (sometimes by defending that right for others, even if there are no specific others to defend).

My perspective on all of these theories leads me always back to one phrase...

Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour is thy judgment come.

At some point, it seems inevitable that this "great city" must crumble to its knees and be befuddled by its own demise.

Oh I'm sure we as a species will off ourselves in good time. I just don't see how an environmental group's report on atmospheric seeding to the UN is relevant to artificially-inducing earthquakes, or feel that we should automatically attribute every-day happenings to any greater power.

Some evil things are just plain stupidity

OMG REPTILIANZ

Agreed. The theories that have a plausible motivation behind them are the ones that stick out the most to me. Reptilians? Please. Pretext for illegal war: worth looking at.

And yet so many of Icke's comments in areas unrelated to reptillian overlords are rational, well thought out. In my mind, because I can see he has the capacity for rational thinking, I have to take into consideration that perhaps it is I who am simply inexperienced. Or perhaps I lack "spiritual eyes" of sorts that might allow me to see a reptillian's true form. Maybe physically a 'reptillian' will never appear reptillian..

It starts with Pearl Harbor and the country spirals down the shitter from there...

• Pear Harbor - Inside knowledge of attack, WH administration wanted it to get us into the war that the public was against. We are attacked, US public opinion does a 180 and everyone enlists to fight the evil japs and germans.
• Vietnam - President Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin to send Americans off to fight in Vietnam. False war with no threat to USA.
• Iran hostage crisis - Hostages are released literally 5 minutes following Reagan's inauguration on January 20, 1981 ensuring that Regan beat Carter.
• Iran-Contra - US caught smuggling drugs to fund CIA black budget. These drugs go on to USA streets where citizens caught using/transporting/selling are arrested and incarcerated, much to the joy of the ever expanding prison industrial complex. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, worse than China!
• 1993 WTC Bombing - FBI knew and was involved with informant. FBI choose to not use inert explosives and allowed live explosives to be used. CBS News video showing FBI forknowledge.
• Oklahoma City Bombing - US Military has Ryder Truck just before the Murrah blast. Oklahoma TV News stations were reporting that the police and ATF officials were saying that there were more undetonated bombs found in the building. The TV newsmen kept reporting this for hours. Police logs confirmed undetonated bombs were found, and so did FEMA reports. Even Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating, on the morning of the bombing, said, "The reports I have is that one device was deactivated, and apparently, there's another device." You can even watch the video clips from the news online talking about the bomb squad being on-scene disarming the other bombs! The Murrah building was not destroyed by a single truck bomb - the Eglin blast effects study and General Partin's Report prove this is the case.
• 2000 Election (Bush vs. Gore) - Election stolen by Bush, not that it would have changed the things that happened (9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Patriot Act, etc.). Read the dissent from the supreme court justices, it's pretty clear. John Ellis, first cousin to George W. Bush and Florida governor John Ellis "Jeb" Bush was working as a freelance political advisor contracted by Fox News to head their election night "decision desk." Fox News is the first station to call the election and they call Bush the winner. The other stations (CBS, ABC, NBC) follow suit. Florida recounts, Gore is the winner, Supreme Court stops the recount and hands Bush the presidency. Now use electronic voting machines, so there will be no paper trail and recounts to show it's a fucking joke.
• Which leads to 9/11 and a whitewash investigation and the implementation of the war on terror (never ending, with no clear enemy), the loss of our freedoms (patriot act) and expanding police state powers.

So what is next? What are they going to do to us next and who are they going to blame for it? Why would you believe anything the fucking government said? Where is the media? Why aren't they investigating? Currently, six major companies control most of the media in our country.

RIP George Carlin