None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Never has this saying of Goethe applied more aptly than it applies now to the American people.

Ignorance is bliss.

So STFU and don't ziss my bliss.

"I freed thousands of slaves, and could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." --Harriet Tubman

What about people that falsely believe they are enslaved?
ducks and covers

That's really weird.

There was a bunch of leaflets on the ground in my parking lot this morning with that exact same thing printed on them. Exact. Same. Thing.

Are you joking?

[deleted]

It tastes funny how? I mean, funny like a I'm a clown, I amuse you? my colon makes you laugh? My colon is here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How does it taste funny?

You should hold on to at least one of those, and scan and upload a copy. Historians love that shit.

10K people? You'd only really need about 30 people and a good social media monitoring platform. There are many corporations that do this because it's one of the most effective ways of marketing in the web 2.0 world.

Yeah you are most likely right on the number of people it would take. I got the idea that this was going on while scanning Reddit in the past and seeing all the Sarah Palin stories. My guess was that she has a web team that goes around daily and just floods websites with articles (positive and negative) and comments. The same things is most likely being done by some Govt agency pushing all the Wiki-leaks and Egypt stories.

If I was running a fascist state of sorts, it's what I'd do. Even if people catch on, they can just say that they're there for "informing and addressing the needs of citizens". High reward, low risk; win-win.

Yeah, Newspeak seems to have infested the moving picture boxes, but despite whatever speculations I have about what is and what is not, the thought on my mind is that maybe there is something much more subtle going on. I came across an article named "The Tyranny of Language" and it made me pause. What impact does language have on how a person views reality (whatever that means), could the true act of dominance be the way we are all taught to read and write?

What impact does language have on how a person views reality (whatever that means), could the true act of dominance be the way we are all taught to read and write?

Sounds dangerously close to becoming another Arizona shooter... I kid, I kid, just joking...

On a serious note, language is extremely important, and anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool imho. Without language we wouldn't be able to effectively communicate with each other; we would be no harder to control than a pack of wild animals. Instead of getting rid of language completely, remove certain words to get the same result, a group of people that aren't able to effectively communicate.

The worst of it all, imho, is when the words exist but people don't understand the definition. After 12 years in school most people still don't have any idea what the definition of identity is, and it's such an important word! Dictionaries are available everywhere and they're dirt cheap, so who's really be blame?

Qui vult decipi, decipiatur. (Set him who wishes to be deceived, be deceived.)

Again thanks for the response, but I am still at a loss, you make a value judgment in your 1 and 2nd sentence based on personal opinion. This just reinforces my early point, not to say you are an agent, but come on, the main point I was trying to make is every time a poster comes in with an observation the first respones always tend to be the same. The poster is accused of being wrong and on and on he has to go trying to defend his observation. No discussion of what possibly could be, just meaningless defense? The reason this comes to be in my opinion is modern education, the imparting of binary logic to the masses. Yes or No are the critical thinking skills bestowed to the majority. Some authority will grade the black or white.

I believe it is our nature to be lazy. As we have seen recently from the Nazis if you provide jobs with decent wages, food, and keep order the people in general will be pacified to overlook many misgivings even while the infrastructure for tyranny is being established. As long as cheap goods from third world slave labor flows in, our farming industry is subsidized, and the entertainment industry retains it's power true change is hard to obtain. The tactics used today are ancient and only implementation has changed. The people are indoctrinated in black and white without a grey area from the barbarians of old to the terrorists of today, from the amphitheater to comic books. You must question how 20% of the world population consume 80% of the worlds resources unless the other 80% have been enslaved through puppet governments, economic warfare, military campaigns, intimidation, corruption, and double speak. Meanwhile the living generations of America have been indoctrinated that the imperialist agenda we maintain is required. I believe that Americans are willing to accept this unequal balance because greed has sunken it's teeth into every aspect of our society. Clearly when comparing American culture to that of other first world countries we see the propaganda machine injecting greed and emotions to send people down corner after corner while only those above see the maze we are in. The same techniques are used in every controlling government but when the people are fat and happy the fear of being chastised by your peers is more effective than the threat of violence.

i agree with a lot of what you say...and so i reflect to you the question of whether your belief that "it's our nature to be lazy" is a byproduct of the conditioning we are all subjected to. for, if perspective, thoughts, feelings and actions all stem from our beliefs, then what better way is there to indoctrinate people than to control/influence/design their beliefs? personally, i believe humans, in their freest form, are brilliant and creative and compassionate...when living without the imposed fear that we are separate and there isn't enough to go around, we default to love, and carry an inherent understanding that all life is deeply connected. would it not be easier to control the masses were they to actually believe they are lazy? would it not empower the masses were they to actually believe they are altruistic beings who have a birthright of freedom and creativity? just a thought...

Well, obesity in the U.S. is a prime example. While diet is a key factor, most weight problems could be significantly reduced with exercise. Due to the lower population density of the U.S. than say Europe, we are much more reliant on vehicles for transportation and I believe both of us could agree that someone who walks or bikes to their daily activities is less likely to be overweight. Exercising is free, is commonly known to improve health and BMI, and is extremely important in a healthy lifestyle. We find however with the overwhelming healthcare costs related to obesity that even with the knowledge of the power of exercise that we would rather have all aspects of health decline than run for 30 minutes a day. You could argue that our society imposes influences and outside pressures that create a susceptibility to obesity but I would rather argue that most indoctrinations of today are not reversing progression but rather maintaining the same primitive means of order that have been used since the earliest documented civilizations. Decreasing the roles of egos, emotions, and impulses in decision making requires self control. While you could compare Germany's abilities to say..........put plastic bottles in a blue bin or find alternative means of decreasing foreign energy dependence, I find it only comes from necessity due to competition from neighboring countries. Sadly there will always be those with selfish or sinister intentions that will manipulate the weaknesses of humanity and while that prevention is nonexistent today I do believe that we have the tools required to educate and instill the self discipline to change not on necessity but for the benefit of society. I do not know how you could claim the feasibility of an idealistic society when the people refuse to abandon the laziness and ignorance that has been perpetuated from the beginning of civilization without being incremented over the time spent in a backwards society instead of believing that there is some secret key to unlocking all negative aspects of society without there being many dead generations in between the implementation of such ideas.

"I do not know how you could claim the feasibility of an idealistic society when the people refuse to abandon the laziness and ignorance that has been perpetuated from the beginning of civilization..."

This statement ties into my point that what you believe is true for you, that your beliefs become the filter through which you view the world. For example, I live in Canada, where obesity is far less epidemic than in America, and I am seeing more people more frequently abandon "laziness and ignorance" for self-education and self-care, in regards to diet and other aspects of being a human. So, through my own personal experience I believe that people do and can and want to change...yes! it's idealistic, but I would much rather be a proponent of what is possible and an advocate for change, than someone who only focuses on the condition that caused the desire for change to begin with...in what other way can we evolve? given that we are all "hypnotized" by our conditioning AND that we can condition ourselves to believe anything, why not condition yourself with beliefs that create/perpetuate a reality that is one you would like to see rather than one you would not? to me, this is the greatest gift we have as humans....we are so free to think anything, that we can think thoughts that bind us. anyway, thanks for exchanging these ideas...:)

Laziness is a nurture issue, not a nature one. Do not underestimate the power of conditioning to trick you into thinking that some qualities are just a natural part of being human. By analyzing humans within the present paradigm, it is very difficult to determine that something is a product of 'nature' as opposed to 'nurture'. The first part of Zeitgeist Moving Forward does touch upon this point. VEry well written post though, it summarizes in a nutshell the plight of society.

Do you think I was accusing you of being wrong? That's not what I was trying to do at all. I already said it once, but I'll say it again, I agree with basically everything you've said. The part about the arizona shooter was just a joke, probably a bad one at that...

The whole point I've been trying to make here is that we are not a name, we use a name but we're not the name itself. Bill collectors and/or courts send letters addressed to the name, but people think the letters are addressed to them because they think they're the name. This is why I've brought up the definition of identity multiple times; the root word in identity is the same root word in identical. Identifying as something is basically making a claim that you're identical to what you're identifying as. Are you identical to a name? Are we required to identify as a name? Is there any lawful authority allowing someone else to identify us as a name?

http://www.youtube.com/user/s1k3st937

http://www.peaceful-inhabitants.tk

Goethe

I look around and see nothing but flag waving brain washed idiots who have NO CLUE what the fuck is actually going on. And it irritates me on a daily basis

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

I hate to say it, but the news agencies in America are a lot more cynical than this. First they dont publish or run any story without approval from the CEO's who get there memos and how to run there business' from the government, lets not forget between 01 and 04, The White House and CIA would release info to certain news agencies through a "secure line" and we all know what happened between 01-04. Also, these news companies CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, whatever major news conglomerate, actually will hire people to "troll" forums to get there public agenda rolling, and move support to one side or the other depending on the situation. Basically don't take the news for granted, and listen to everything with a grain of salt.

If you're suggesting that we're enslaved, are you making the claim that you're identical to a name? Have you ever looked up the definition of identity?

Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1913 edition: Identity (Page: 725) Iden"tity (?), n.; pl. Identities (#). [F. identité, LL. identitas, fr. L. idem the same, from the root of is he, that; cf. Skr. idam this. Cf. Item.]

1. The state or quality of being identical, or the same; sameness.

Identity is a relation between our cognitions of a thing, not between things themselves. Sir W. Hamilton. 2. The condition of being the same with something described or asserted, or of possessing a character claimed; as, to establish the identity of stolen goods.

Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition: IDEN''TITY, n. Sameness, as distinguished from similitude and diversity. We speak of the identity of goods found, the identity of persons, or of personal identity.

http://www.youtube.com/user/s1k3st937

http://www.peaceful-inhabitants.tk

Thanks for your reply, but what exactly are you saying, forgive me I am a little slow and need things broken out in simple ideas, you seem to be making some kind of argument that my idea is just basically wrong and you are proving that it is false, what are you getting at, that I can not interpret reality as well as you?

[deleted]

It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear. ~ General Douglas MacArthur

The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. ~ Michael Parenti

The propaganda system allows the U.S. leadership to commit crimes without limit and with no suggestion of misbehavior or criminality; in fact, major war criminals like Henry Kissinger appear regularly on TV to comment on the crimes of the derivative butchers. ~ Edward Herman

It also allows the sneaky snake bad guys to remain hidden but still in control. As long as someone dies on the news, America has served Justice.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...

I wasn't trying to prove that the idea you're sharing is false, in fact I agree with it. People that falsely believe they're free are hopelessly enslaved because in order to free oneself from slavery they must first realize that they're enslaved.

The point I was trying to make is that we might be the ones "enslaving" ourselves due to our willingness to be deceived. Qui vult decipi, decipiatur. (Set him who wishes to be deceived, be deceived.) Metaphor: It's easy to blame the manufactures of alcohol for an alcoholic's problems, but isn't the alcoholic himself at least partially responsible?

Are bills and/or court summons addressed to the name we're using or are they addressed to the human being using the name? Are we required to identify as a name? If someone thinks we are required to identify as a name, which law makes it so?

Do you see what I'm trying to get at here?

http://www.youtube.com/user/s1k3st937

http://www.peaceful-inhabitants.tk

What do you mean "it comes in" when one tries to communicate with people?

Look at some of the responses I have gotten here or on most peoples threads around the internet. Go look at some of the r/politics threads and just observe what is being said. I recall reading in China they have censors that check everything being written on message boards (somebody let me know if I am wrong), what makes you think they are not doing it here in much more subtle way? I find it hard to believe all the money they spend is directed outside this country. The more immediate danger to the system is a random mass uprising locally.

You will need to be more pragmatic in the way you approach this accusation. Reddit is owned by Conde Naste. It was built by two guys and it runs on a bunch of servers. From what I hear although Conde Naste could pull the plug at any time they leave reddit to do it's own thing. For what you are proposing to be true it is unfeasible for a lot of the small websites. The effect of forcing a message board website to allow you to connect with root access to change wall posts would have undoubtledly be known about, because these are small independent sites. Therein lies the disruptive power of the internet. The Mass media, on the other hand, is controlled from the top- we all know that.

No central hub and no direct manipulation of comments, think more subtle. Direct oppression is obvious, a massive amount of people sitting in front of keyboards trolling large message boards and newspaper comments, no way that could happen. I don't think anyone has ever seen a private group do massive amounts of intentional trolling all around the internet. Wonder where Megaphone got it's idea from.

If you were on reddit a couple of months ago when someone posted that they were being tracked with a device. Turns out it was the FBI and they were watching him for what his friend said on reddit! Best part of it all the FBI came and asked for their device back

I saw that story and good point, they obviously have something that keeps an eye on what is being said.

Of course they do, America is the "land if the free" and Americans believe this hardcore, however if Americans knew that their beautiful internet isn't as free as they thought, well they would probably get very angry, WHICH IS GOOD, nothing will get done till everyone is angry, however that's why we have distractions like t.v, drugs, and the image that educated people are losers and "not cool"

You don't answer the question. I don't know what I'm looking for, so how will reading other peoples' comments show me anything? If you're trying to make a point, it really helps to actually make an effort.

The idea I am trying to convey is that there may be people monitoring websites and comment boards with the sole purpose of stifiling conversations through various tactics. Not all the time but enough to keep people from ever reaching sensible conclusions on topics.

The only thing keeping people from reaching "sensible" conclusions are the people themselves. Not any sort of secret, government discussion-stifling effort.

Also, I have a feeling that "sensible" means only ideas that agree with your own.

You are right. There is no way anything I am saying could possibly be true.

Given the fact that you can't seem to come up with any sort of evidence and are basically saying "it could happen," makes me want to agree with you there.

Great, we agree, beers later!

If there were tens of thousands of people doing this day in and day out, what do you think the odds are of every single one of them keeping quiet about this?

What are the odds that every military, CIA, NSA and the countless other intelligence agencies who sign nondisclosure acts keep quiet? It's their job. This is such a played out argument. Not to mention, due to compartmentalization and the people doing this being victim to the propaganda as well, just like the public, they probably believe the shit they are doing or don't know what their role is in the bigger picture.

Agree with you there, from another post somebody mentioned it would only take about thirty people, but I honestly don't know the amount. But we do know at least someone is monitoring things (see the post about the Redditor who was tracked by the FBI for his comments), is it that much of a stretch to think they may be doing a little more than monitoring.

I interpreted this as meaning the powers that be don't have to do much by way of actually censoring truth websites or ideas. Their propaganda and conditioning for the masses has been so good that the people themselves keep each other in the group mentality that the propaganda is reality through ridicule and incredulity and 'well, everyone knows this or that'. The minds of the masses prevent many ideas and truths from getting in so the government doesn't necessarily have to put up an actual firewall like in China. The firewall is already in the people themselves.

Great point, the best way to build a system is a self regulating one, but you always have to fuel it up every once in a while, thats the role I think these people play.

What do you recommend we do jmlcctx?

IMHO people should focus less energy on strategies that try to wake other people up, but what exactly to do instead is hard to say. There is no silver bullet. The system we are under is setup very well, I actually admire it sometimes for how good it works. But if I had the power to do one thing it would be to get rid of drivers licenses. They are one of the most powerful tools the system has when you start thinking about it.

If that were true, should'nt this thread be blocked too?

Nothing would be directly blocked, then it would be obvious. All ideas can freely flow out but anything that could cause real action or understanding is peppered with ideas to lead the original idea off course.

I have thought this was happening as well for a long time. While I know people are inherently stupid I have a hard time believing that SO many people on the internet really believe the bullshit arguments they make.

The great firewalll actually blocks a ton of sites. I've also travelled the world broadly and speak languages besides english, we are not behind something similar and just unaware of it. I'm under no illusion that we're free, though.

100% agree, Goethe is da man!

anyone who hasnt heard/seen any of john harris' lectures should give them a look:

confirmation that all nations are run for corparate intrest

John Harris : Its an Illusion

"they spend all this money on intelligence, where do you think it goes?"

Fas ass consultants, lobbyists, big business, greedy people. Taking away liberties, starting wars, etc... these are just means to an end - the ultimate goal is pretty simple, and not very glamorous: "How can I make more money?"

Example 1: How do I make money for me and my best buds who own weapons manufacturing companies? We'll start a war! Result: Iraq war.

Example 2: Owner of X-Ray machine - how can I make more money selling these? I know, I'll get some guy to get on a plane with a shitty underwear bomb. Result: Thousands of sales of said X-Ray machines to the TSA.

What's especially telling of Example 2 is that if this wasn't the case and everyone was out for our best interests, the gov't would have invested money in proper personnel training (ie., what they have in Israel airports). It would have also served the purpose of raising skill levels of a few thousand citizens who might otherwise be unemployed. However, that wouldn't have been much of a payday for anyone at the top. X-Ray machines though, I guarantee that a very small number of people made millions from it.

http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html

None are more hopelessly free than those who falsely believe they are enslaved!

Sounds about right for conspiracy.