I'm sure you know about similar attempts to start wars based on disinformation campaigns - the Gulf of Tonkin incident (directly led to Vietnam), and the incubator babies hoax, which led to the first gulf war. (Public sentiment had been against going to war for Kuwait until the incubator babies saved the day).
Did you know about "Super-NATO" - the US campaign to install secret governments across Western Europe. (recruits were installed into positions of power, from which they would be responsible to their handlers in the CIA). Operation Gladio was the Italian component of Super-NATO, and unleashed a campaign of terror in the early 80's, which they blamed on the communists). They bombed civilian crowds, and engaged in assassinations in their agit-prop campaign. (Basically, it was Operation Northwoods in Europe, but it went operational).
Did you know that the first terrorist to blow up a civilian airliner with a bomb in the cargo section is living in the US, and the US refuses to return him to face charges of terrorism? (In his defense, he claimed that there is no such thing as a civilian).
Did you know that, 3 days before Pearl Harbor, the US master plan for fighting WW2 was leaked and published in pro-nazi newspapers in the US? Based on the contents of the plan (which said that the US would prepare to invade nazi-held Europe, but would not be able to do so until 1944), the nazis declared war on the US.
(Less than a dozen people had access to the full text of the plan. The FBI's investigation of the leak was shut down when it became obvious that their target was within the Whitehouse.)
All wars in a democracy start with a disinformation campaign. Goering said it best:
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -- Hermann Goering
I'm sorta in the process of writing a short article on Northwoods, so it's cool for this topic to come up.
But I had a question. I was thinking of talking about while Kennedy rejected Northwoods, would it be fair to say that elements of the Northwoods plan went "live" during the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify the Vietnam war? I know it's often cited in conspiracy circles but I'm working on something to target skeptics so it has to be pretty air-tight.
No matter how many times I read the Gulf of Tonkin wiki, it never really seems to make sense to me.
On one hand, the NSA historical study states:
[I]t is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. [...] In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on August 2
But on the right side of the article, it states some casualty figures... damaged ships, wounded & killed personnel, etc.
So if "no attack happened" that night, what's up with the casualties?
29 comments
12 dhpye 2011-03-06
I'm sure you know about similar attempts to start wars based on disinformation campaigns - the Gulf of Tonkin incident (directly led to Vietnam), and the incubator babies hoax, which led to the first gulf war. (Public sentiment had been against going to war for Kuwait until the incubator babies saved the day).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
http://www.911review.com/precedent/decade/incubators.html
Did you know about "Super-NATO" - the US campaign to install secret governments across Western Europe. (recruits were installed into positions of power, from which they would be responsible to their handlers in the CIA). Operation Gladio was the Italian component of Super-NATO, and unleashed a campaign of terror in the early 80's, which they blamed on the communists). They bombed civilian crowds, and engaged in assassinations in their agit-prop campaign. (Basically, it was Operation Northwoods in Europe, but it went operational).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
Did you know that the first terrorist to blow up a civilian airliner with a bomb in the cargo section is living in the US, and the US refuses to return him to face charges of terrorism? (In his defense, he claimed that there is no such thing as a civilian).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_Flight_455
Did you know that, 3 days before Pearl Harbor, the US master plan for fighting WW2 was leaked and published in pro-nazi newspapers in the US? Based on the contents of the plan (which said that the US would prepare to invade nazi-held Europe, but would not be able to do so until 1944), the nazis declared war on the US.
(Less than a dozen people had access to the full text of the plan. The FBI's investigation of the leak was shut down when it became obvious that their target was within the Whitehouse.)
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j062501.html
All wars in a democracy start with a disinformation campaign. Goering said it best:
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -- Hermann Goering
5 sun827 2011-03-06
And if we're talking about false flags, lets not forget the USS liberty.
1 sun827 2011-03-06
and Operation PBSUCCESS
9 [deleted] 2011-03-06
Yeah, 9/11.
7 [deleted] 2011-03-06
It was a planned false flag attack on Cuba to justify the invasion of Cuba... much like what is happening in Libya as we speak.
5 [deleted] 2011-03-06
don't forget 9/11...
2 abuckley77 2011-03-06
Go on...
2 [deleted] 2011-03-06
Go on about Libya? Here the following persons comments are pretty much what I am thinking is happening right now...
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/fwk8z/so_theres_this_niggling_feeling_in_the_back_of_my/c1j5lel
1 abuckley77 2011-03-06
Thank you.
4 GrosJean 2011-03-06
Everyone should know about Operation Northwoods.
4 alllie 2011-03-06
We all know about Operation Northwoods. But you can tell us again.
It shows that certain elements in the government are our enemies.
3 [deleted] 2011-03-06
[deleted]
1 Eshmang 2011-03-06
I prefer operation goldfinch. Much less gamey flavor.
2 stapuff6 2011-03-06
Checkout Operation Cloverleaf
1 mikeylikes 2011-03-06
aka aerosol crimes
1 Gumptioneer 2011-03-06
It's operation northwoods on top of my pancakes and waffles on certain mornings.
2 Romeinoneday 2011-03-06
Oh you.
2 Gumptioneer 2011-03-06
I know right?
1 Romeinoneday 2011-03-06
The syrup is in-fact called Northwoods.
1 mom-bot 2011-03-06
r/conspiracy needs a pinned conspiracy primer or something.
1 aoss 2011-03-06
I'm sorta in the process of writing a short article on Northwoods, so it's cool for this topic to come up.
But I had a question. I was thinking of talking about while Kennedy rejected Northwoods, would it be fair to say that elements of the Northwoods plan went "live" during the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify the Vietnam war? I know it's often cited in conspiracy circles but I'm working on something to target skeptics so it has to be pretty air-tight.
No matter how many times I read the Gulf of Tonkin wiki, it never really seems to make sense to me.
On one hand, the NSA historical study states:
But on the right side of the article, it states some casualty figures... damaged ships, wounded & killed personnel, etc.
So if "no attack happened" that night, what's up with the casualties?
1 dreamslaughter 2011-03-06
I think just before the Gulf of Tonkin incident the USA sent covert operators into Vietnam to sabotage boats and harbors.
1 TominatorXX 2011-03-06
Wiki lies. You can't really believe much of what's in there. It's so heavily controlled by interested parties.
1 Squackula 2011-03-06
It's the template for the War on Terror™.
0 fastslowfast 2011-03-06
Operation Northwoods is my fiendish plan to rid the world of the Blue Spruce. Raaahaaahaaa!!!
-1 tardvark 2011-03-06
Nope. Just you.
-11 trolleshwar 2011-03-06
/r/circlejerk is that way -->
http://www.google.com/search?client=midori&q=site%3Areddit.com+operation+northwoods
6 Shagata_Ganai 2011-03-06
So go there.
6 Shagata_Ganai 2011-03-06
So go there.
1 mikeylikes 2011-03-06
aka aerosol crimes