There are endless possibilities. It can be that the real puppet masters (for example the European royal families and their US cousins) have decided to throw the banksters to the crowd.
Maybe as a way to force the public to accept personal IDs (to stop anonymous bank accounts), more regulation, monitoring, more rights for the big country unions, like EU (to prevent international speculations) etc.
A totalitarian world government would not need private banks and FRB - USSR had just a few 100% state banks.
I'm sorry, you are correct. BUT, it certainly isn't elitist money. The people in America who really run things are a very small fraction of that 1%. They earn far more than $500k per year.
True, but those few ultra-rich have left a small portion of the wealth (generated by US economy) to flow to the ppl directly working for them - politicians, financial industry employees, media stars, etc. So that 1% is actively working against the interests of the 99%.
Certainly, the protests can help globalization. There is an effort afoot to move to one world currency. America's banking system must therefore be cast as an unfair exploiter which needs replacement in order to secure just treatment for all. These protests help spread that message.
But, I must say, you're reading way too much into the decision by Ben and Jerry's to support them. That's perfectly in keeping with their character, right from their start, AFAIK.
I was wondering this as well, surely if they had engineered or planned this recession they knew there would be protests and riots. And of course they would make sure that fit into their plan.
I think it's awesome when people go beyond and away from the hive mind. When people are capable of critical thinking. Of course there's many levels to this. Of course the public is on a leash and this is being allowed to some extent.
It is my opinion that the MSM avoiding topics like Ron Paul's rising success and OWS is an act to a certain degree. Designed to make the masses think they're overwhelming the power structure. There's many possibilities of what can happen next. Perhaps a very significant even on 11-11-11 (next month) false flag terror or something bigger. Perhaps like me_and_1 said abolish some private banks moving towards only the World Bank. Who knows? It is also possible for WWIII to begin if the U.S attacks Iran. I think many big developments are about to happen.
The protests were an inevitable result of a streak of very deliberate actions. Protests in America due to food prices and prescription shortages have been anticipated for years now. This is well documented.
Perhaps they manage protests the same way that rangers manage forest fires: conduct a series of well-contained controlled burns to decrease the likelihood of uncontrollable wildfires.
Hipsters eating ice cream and waltzing with police officers in Zucotti Park is a hell of a lot tamer than what was expected.
There could be a false flag involving a bombing at Liberty Park. There will not be much evidence left, but the move to ban all public rallies will be swift.
Only thing in the future, gilded TV personalities will be taking up fake positions and push an agenda for their hidden masters.
I think there is an initiative to make some people think that the OWS protest was created by the PTB. It would certainly undermine the movement. I have given it heavy consideration, and have concluded - NO FUCKING WAY! IT'S 100% GENUINE! (IMO)
I think the potential of the movement scares them to death (Egypt).
The only reason I can think that the PTB would want to create chaos would be to usher in Martial Law in order to confiscate firearms. That would probably start a civil war...
Fire arms are irrelevant today. The pentagon has semi-automatic drones, crowd control weapons, face id to snipe leaders, etc., there is no chance the population can rise and fight successfully vs. the government.
Ah yes, but you are assuming that all those kids in the military (our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers) will fight against us. I don't believe they will...
The Egyptian military ignored orders to fire on civilians. Many of them even joined the protesters.
I disagree. There's over 200 million privately owned firearms in America. Unless the US Government is willing to use weapons of mass destruction on us, they would lose a civil war...
Resistance forms around leaders, eliminate those leaders and ppl stay home watching propaganda on TV.
A single factory in China can assemble millions of laptops a year. Flying drones are not that different from laptops, once the software is ready. Shooting a few of those won't matter.
A violent revolution would be futile. Violent revolutions never really work out well anyway. A nonviolent cultural revolution would be very effective and its changes would be long lasting. Ultimately, human beings are the greatest resource in any nation and if we persistently demand a better way, in spite of their best efforts to dissuade us, our leaders will eventually have no choice but to either follow suit or to annihilate the one resource that actually grants them any power. You can't rightly be called a king if all your subjects are ash or even worse, broken and useless.
There comes a point when it becomes more worthwhile to give into the demands of the masses than it is to eradicate massive swaths of your populace. Historically speaking, the brutal eradication of populist movements have often been a precursor to national ruin. Violent oppression is the desperate recourse of ineffective, inept, and failed governors. Our minds are the only battlefields worth conquering and once they've lost dominion over our minds, no amount of bullets and bombs will put them back in power; that's when they begin to make concessions and that's when revolutions become successful.
I can't help but thinking it could be a Chinese or Chinese/Russian venture to bring socialism to the US. It's the perfect time to do it, with the recession and all.
NATIONALISM doesn't have to lead to wars. Now, imperialism and colonialism absolutely do. Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures. Nor does it have to include ethnic and cultural isolation. Nationalism is vague and flexible, and includes several different sub-isms. Whats wrong with having a strong sense of belonging to a territory or culture? What is America without Nationalism?
Well this is a huge topic, but here are a few thoughts:
Nationalism is easy to exploit by power-hungry politicians for their own agenda - like more money for the evil corps. Does the average dude know where the 'good' nationalism ends? It seems through history he usually does not.
Nationalism is in it's core separating ppl into 'we' and 'they'. Where 'we' are way better then 'them'. So if 'they' kill a few thousands of us, it's OK to nuke millions of them. The separation and the illogical, emotional response to events involving 'us' and 'them' makes wars a lot more likely.
Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures.
Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?
What is America without Nationalism?
That's the thing, the more nationalist a country is - the more likely it is to start a war. America killed a million Vietnamese and a million Iraqis - so what, their lives are not as precious as American.
Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures.
"Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?" - According to the definition, and to my sense of the word, it does not have to include racial or cultural superiority. An opinion can not redefine a word.
Nationalism can be simplified - My nation comes first, and I'm happy to live here. There is nothing wrong with that.
Every country on the globe, 3rd world or not, has a sense of nationalism. You don't see all of them starting wars do you? America starts so many wars not because of nationalism, but because of imperialism.
Without nationalism America would have a name like Territory G37, as would every other country. A moderate amount of nationalism never hurt anyone, and as far as I'm concerned is perfectly normal. You really only have two choices, nationalism or globalism, us or them. I choose us. I'm not ready to sacrifice anything for the global community, or the greater good, because I live here. I'll be blunt - screw the rest of the world, I am not a humanitarian.
I'm not ready to sacrifice anything for the global community, or the greater good, because I live here. I'll be blunt - screw the rest of the world, I am not a humanitarian.
US has roughly 5% of the total population and creates 25% of world pollution. How do you think ppl in the rest of the world feel about this?
You may live 'here' but you create many global problems. The global warming will cause wars for land, water, resources. And US will get involved. So this is how your nationalism leads to war.
With the modern technology we live in global village. Being a nationalist means being a bad neighbor. And bad neighborhoods are bad for everyone.
you're talking about imperialism, not nationalism. Read the definition - "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationships, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."
NATIONALISM and almost any other -ISM is a mentality set upon the masses for them to identify with and defend. Human 'hive minds' with a similar mentality are easier to control. You have been indoctrinated into identifying with CAPITAL-ISM and NATIONAL-ISM to a certain extent. Even if you are 'awake' the mentality will stil be on your sub-councious, as you as a person are identified with it.
How did they do this? The same way they do it all over the world with other -ISMs. You are taken away from your family at a very early age, for several hours a day, for most of the days of the week, for most of your childhood and adolescent age. You're taught how to think, you're also taught to be pro-government, you're taught convenient history and several -ISMs. Depending on what part of the world you are variables can change. This is called school and "it's good for you". Also your future within the system depends on it.
Growing up, another pattern: Once you got back to your family after the indoctrination of the day. You probably did not have meaningful conversations with them instead to take advantage of your 'free time' you went straight to the tv to get a home dose of indoctrination. After various generations within the system even the conversations within the family members will be auto-indoctrination.
Yes, indeed. It's good for the country, and what's good for the country is good for me. However, I do not have to buy into every aspect of nationalism, as I clearly do not. I only appreciate the fundamentals of nationalism.
I only appreciate the fundamentals of nationalism.
Fundamental Nationalism is a good ideal (in essence). But it has never been applied as it is written. Neither have any other -isms. These days the average American identifies Nationalism with war, among with other irrelevant things like Football. Modern American Nationalism is really Fascism tied together with Zionism. There's also something else tied to that Modern American Nationalism that I don't have a name for, which is, hatred for the truly educated that recognize what I previously stated. These people are labeled by the MSM and therefore most of the population as 'un-american" or/and 'anti-semitic'.
Another reason why I doubt the OWS movement has to do with issues in the very foundation of America . I think the only chance for the real type of Nationalism you're talking about would be for real heads to roll and to start all over again. A new real America.
I agree. But I think that you're complicating and stretching the definition just a tad. We have nationalism, and we have fascism. The two are different, though we do currently have the fascist flavor of nationalism, BUT, it doesn't have to be that way...
Break it down to it's most basic parts, throw the rest out, and it's a good thing.
Well this is a huge topic, but here are a few thoughts:
Nationalism is easy to exploit by power-hungry politicians for their own agenda - like more money for the evil corps. Does the average dude know where the 'good' nationalism ends? It seems through history he usually does not.
Nationalism is in it's core separating ppl into 'we' and 'they'. Where 'we' are way better then 'them'. So if 'they' kill a few thousands of us, it's OK to nuke millions of them. The separation and the illogical, emotional response to events involving 'us' and 'them' makes wars a lot more likely.
Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures.
Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?
What is America without Nationalism?
That's the thing, the more nationalist a country is - the more likely it is to start a war. America killed a million Vietnamese and a million Iraqis - so what, their lives are not as precious as American.
NATIONALISM and almost any other -ISM is a mentality set upon the masses for them to identify with and defend. Human 'hive minds' with a similar mentality are easier to control. You have been indoctrinated into identifying with CAPITAL-ISM and NATIONAL-ISM to a certain extent. Even if you are 'awake' the mentality will stil be on your sub-councious, as you as a person are identified with it.
How did they do this? The same way they do it all over the world with other -ISMs. You are taken away from your family at a very early age, for several hours a day, for most of the days of the week, for most of your childhood and adolescent age. You're taught how to think, you're also taught to be pro-government, you're taught convenient history and several -ISMs. Depending on what part of the world you are variables can change. This is called school and "it's good for you". Also your future within the system depends on it.
Growing up, another pattern: Once you got back to your family after the indoctrination of the day. You probably did not have meaningful conversations with them instead to take advantage of your 'free time' you went straight to the tv to get a home dose of indoctrination. After various generations within the system even the conversations within the family members will be auto-indoctrination.
35 comments
6 [deleted] 2011-10-15
[deleted]
4 me_and_1 2011-10-15
There are endless possibilities. It can be that the real puppet masters (for example the European royal families and their US cousins) have decided to throw the banksters to the crowd.
Maybe as a way to force the public to accept personal IDs (to stop anonymous bank accounts), more regulation, monitoring, more rights for the big country unions, like EU (to prevent international speculations) etc.
A totalitarian world government would not need private banks and FRB - USSR had just a few 100% state banks.
2 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
$300 - 500 K isn't a 1%'er income...
1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
$500K per year is definitely in the top 1%.
That park probably costs tens of millions.
2 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
I'm sorry, you are correct. BUT, it certainly isn't elitist money. The people in America who really run things are a very small fraction of that 1%. They earn far more than $500k per year.
1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
True, but those few ultra-rich have left a small portion of the wealth (generated by US economy) to flow to the ppl directly working for them - politicians, financial industry employees, media stars, etc. So that 1% is actively working against the interests of the 99%.
1 [deleted] 2011-10-15
[deleted]
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
wow
-1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
$500K per year is definitely in the top 1%.
That park probably costs tens of millions.
2 pompitous_of_love 2011-10-15
Certainly, the protests can help globalization. There is an effort afoot to move to one world currency. America's banking system must therefore be cast as an unfair exploiter which needs replacement in order to secure just treatment for all. These protests help spread that message.
But, I must say, you're reading way too much into the decision by Ben and Jerry's to support them. That's perfectly in keeping with their character, right from their start, AFAIK.
Who knows about the owner of the park.
6 Stumply 2011-10-15
I was wondering this as well, surely if they had engineered or planned this recession they knew there would be protests and riots. And of course they would make sure that fit into their plan.
5 [deleted] 2011-10-15
I think it's awesome when people go beyond and away from the hive mind. When people are capable of critical thinking. Of course there's many levels to this. Of course the public is on a leash and this is being allowed to some extent.
It is my opinion that the MSM avoiding topics like Ron Paul's rising success and OWS is an act to a certain degree. Designed to make the masses think they're overwhelming the power structure. There's many possibilities of what can happen next. Perhaps a very significant even on 11-11-11 (next month) false flag terror or something bigger. Perhaps like me_and_1 said abolish some private banks moving towards only the World Bank. Who knows? It is also possible for WWIII to begin if the U.S attacks Iran. I think many big developments are about to happen.
2 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
"I think many big developments are about to happen."
I think that's the only thing we can be certain of.
4 laughattheleader 2011-10-15
The protests were an inevitable result of a streak of very deliberate actions. Protests in America due to food prices and prescription shortages have been anticipated for years now. This is well documented.
Perhaps they manage protests the same way that rangers manage forest fires: conduct a series of well-contained controlled burns to decrease the likelihood of uncontrollable wildfires.
Hipsters eating ice cream and waltzing with police officers in Zucotti Park is a hell of a lot tamer than what was expected.
2 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
"Hipsters eating ice cream and waltzing with police officers in Zucotti Park is a hell of a lot tamer than what was expected."
It's only just begun.
3 necromanser 2011-10-15
There could be a false flag involving a bombing at Liberty Park. There will not be much evidence left, but the move to ban all public rallies will be swift. Only thing in the future, gilded TV personalities will be taking up fake positions and push an agenda for their hidden masters.
3 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
I think there is an initiative to make some people think that the OWS protest was created by the PTB. It would certainly undermine the movement. I have given it heavy consideration, and have concluded - NO FUCKING WAY! IT'S 100% GENUINE! (IMO)
I think the potential of the movement scares them to death (Egypt).
The only reason I can think that the PTB would want to create chaos would be to usher in Martial Law in order to confiscate firearms. That would probably start a civil war...
1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Fire arms are irrelevant today. The pentagon has semi-automatic drones, crowd control weapons, face id to snipe leaders, etc., there is no chance the population can rise and fight successfully vs. the government.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
Ah yes, but you are assuming that all those kids in the military (our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers) will fight against us. I don't believe they will...
The Egyptian military ignored orders to fire on civilians. Many of them even joined the protesters.
1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Our brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers working in Goldman-Sash and the rest of Wall Street pretty much sold us out for a few bucks.
These modern weapons require very few ppl to operate them and Blackwater/XE has more then enough non-US born stuff.
In Egypt the military basically used the protests to take the power.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
I disagree. There's over 200 million privately owned firearms in America. Unless the US Government is willing to use weapons of mass destruction on us, they would lose a civil war...
That's my opinion.
1 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Resistance forms around leaders, eliminate those leaders and ppl stay home watching propaganda on TV.
A single factory in China can assemble millions of laptops a year. Flying drones are not that different from laptops, once the software is ready. Shooting a few of those won't matter.
Also have a look at this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/l486e/i_think_people_are_slowly_waking_up_because_of/c2pvqld
1 laughattheleader 2011-10-15
A violent revolution would be futile. Violent revolutions never really work out well anyway. A nonviolent cultural revolution would be very effective and its changes would be long lasting. Ultimately, human beings are the greatest resource in any nation and if we persistently demand a better way, in spite of their best efforts to dissuade us, our leaders will eventually have no choice but to either follow suit or to annihilate the one resource that actually grants them any power. You can't rightly be called a king if all your subjects are ash or even worse, broken and useless.
There comes a point when it becomes more worthwhile to give into the demands of the masses than it is to eradicate massive swaths of your populace. Historically speaking, the brutal eradication of populist movements have often been a precursor to national ruin. Violent oppression is the desperate recourse of ineffective, inept, and failed governors. Our minds are the only battlefields worth conquering and once they've lost dominion over our minds, no amount of bullets and bombs will put them back in power; that's when they begin to make concessions and that's when revolutions become successful.
2 nickmarks 2011-10-15
I am torn on this to.
1 samaxecampbell 2011-10-15
I can't help but thinking it could be a Chinese or Chinese/Russian venture to bring socialism to the US. It's the perfect time to do it, with the recession and all.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH NATIONALISM???
2 me_and_1 2011-10-15
NATIONALISM leads to wars. And wars are not that bad ... until you personally are forced to the front lines.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
NATIONALISM doesn't have to lead to wars. Now, imperialism and colonialism absolutely do. Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures. Nor does it have to include ethnic and cultural isolation. Nationalism is vague and flexible, and includes several different sub-isms. Whats wrong with having a strong sense of belonging to a territory or culture? What is America without Nationalism?
2 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Well this is a huge topic, but here are a few thoughts:
Nationalism is easy to exploit by power-hungry politicians for their own agenda - like more money for the evil corps. Does the average dude know where the 'good' nationalism ends? It seems through history he usually does not.
Nationalism is in it's core separating ppl into 'we' and 'they'. Where 'we' are way better then 'them'. So if 'they' kill a few thousands of us, it's OK to nuke millions of them. The separation and the illogical, emotional response to events involving 'us' and 'them' makes wars a lot more likely.
Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?
That's the thing, the more nationalist a country is - the more likely it is to start a war. America killed a million Vietnamese and a million Iraqis - so what, their lives are not as precious as American.
0 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
Nationalism does not have to include a feeling of superiority to other nations, races, and cultures.
"Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?" - According to the definition, and to my sense of the word, it does not have to include racial or cultural superiority. An opinion can not redefine a word.
Nationalism can be simplified - My nation comes first, and I'm happy to live here. There is nothing wrong with that.
Every country on the globe, 3rd world or not, has a sense of nationalism. You don't see all of them starting wars do you? America starts so many wars not because of nationalism, but because of imperialism.
Without nationalism America would have a name like Territory G37, as would every other country. A moderate amount of nationalism never hurt anyone, and as far as I'm concerned is perfectly normal. You really only have two choices, nationalism or globalism, us or them. I choose us. I'm not ready to sacrifice anything for the global community, or the greater good, because I live here. I'll be blunt - screw the rest of the world, I am not a humanitarian.
2 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Haha, I disagree with all you say ;-)
US has roughly 5% of the total population and creates 25% of world pollution. How do you think ppl in the rest of the world feel about this?
You may live 'here' but you create many global problems. The global warming will cause wars for land, water, resources. And US will get involved. So this is how your nationalism leads to war.
With the modern technology we live in global village. Being a nationalist means being a bad neighbor. And bad neighborhoods are bad for everyone.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
you're talking about imperialism, not nationalism. Read the definition - "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationships, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."
1 [deleted] 2011-10-15
NATIONALISM and almost any other -ISM is a mentality set upon the masses for them to identify with and defend. Human 'hive minds' with a similar mentality are easier to control. You have been indoctrinated into identifying with CAPITAL-ISM and NATIONAL-ISM to a certain extent. Even if you are 'awake' the mentality will stil be on your sub-councious, as you as a person are identified with it.
How did they do this? The same way they do it all over the world with other -ISMs. You are taken away from your family at a very early age, for several hours a day, for most of the days of the week, for most of your childhood and adolescent age. You're taught how to think, you're also taught to be pro-government, you're taught convenient history and several -ISMs. Depending on what part of the world you are variables can change. This is called school and "it's good for you". Also your future within the system depends on it.
Growing up, another pattern: Once you got back to your family after the indoctrination of the day. You probably did not have meaningful conversations with them instead to take advantage of your 'free time' you went straight to the tv to get a home dose of indoctrination. After various generations within the system even the conversations within the family members will be auto-indoctrination.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
Yes, indeed. It's good for the country, and what's good for the country is good for me. However, I do not have to buy into every aspect of nationalism, as I clearly do not. I only appreciate the fundamentals of nationalism.
1 [deleted] 2011-10-15
Fundamental Nationalism is a good ideal (in essence). But it has never been applied as it is written. Neither have any other -isms. These days the average American identifies Nationalism with war, among with other irrelevant things like Football. Modern American Nationalism is really Fascism tied together with Zionism. There's also something else tied to that Modern American Nationalism that I don't have a name for, which is, hatred for the truly educated that recognize what I previously stated. These people are labeled by the MSM and therefore most of the population as 'un-american" or/and 'anti-semitic'.
Another reason why I doubt the OWS movement has to do with issues in the very foundation of America . I think the only chance for the real type of Nationalism you're talking about would be for real heads to roll and to start all over again. A new real America.
1 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
I agree. But I think that you're complicating and stretching the definition just a tad. We have nationalism, and we have fascism. The two are different, though we do currently have the fascist flavor of nationalism, BUT, it doesn't have to be that way...
Break it down to it's most basic parts, throw the rest out, and it's a good thing.
0 dieselphiend 2011-10-15
Nationalism or Globalism. Pick one.
2 me_and_1 2011-10-15
Well this is a huge topic, but here are a few thoughts:
Nationalism is easy to exploit by power-hungry politicians for their own agenda - like more money for the evil corps. Does the average dude know where the 'good' nationalism ends? It seems through history he usually does not.
Nationalism is in it's core separating ppl into 'we' and 'they'. Where 'we' are way better then 'them'. So if 'they' kill a few thousands of us, it's OK to nuke millions of them. The separation and the illogical, emotional response to events involving 'us' and 'them' makes wars a lot more likely.
Well IMHO it does. Why would you be proud to be American, if you think that being American is as good as being say Mexican?
That's the thing, the more nationalist a country is - the more likely it is to start a war. America killed a million Vietnamese and a million Iraqis - so what, their lives are not as precious as American.
1 [deleted] 2011-10-15
NATIONALISM and almost any other -ISM is a mentality set upon the masses for them to identify with and defend. Human 'hive minds' with a similar mentality are easier to control. You have been indoctrinated into identifying with CAPITAL-ISM and NATIONAL-ISM to a certain extent. Even if you are 'awake' the mentality will stil be on your sub-councious, as you as a person are identified with it.
How did they do this? The same way they do it all over the world with other -ISMs. You are taken away from your family at a very early age, for several hours a day, for most of the days of the week, for most of your childhood and adolescent age. You're taught how to think, you're also taught to be pro-government, you're taught convenient history and several -ISMs. Depending on what part of the world you are variables can change. This is called school and "it's good for you". Also your future within the system depends on it.
Growing up, another pattern: Once you got back to your family after the indoctrination of the day. You probably did not have meaningful conversations with them instead to take advantage of your 'free time' you went straight to the tv to get a home dose of indoctrination. After various generations within the system even the conversations within the family members will be auto-indoctrination.