People want some sanity restored to their government, their banks, their courts, their media, their schools, their economy. We all see what is happening -- rich fuckers keep getting elected or appointed, and they do nothing to make things better, but only make things worse. There's no way the US military should be occupying two countries in the Middle East, and bombing the shit out of Libya, while at the same time the corrupt government in Washington is giving billions a year to the rich cocksuckers in Israel. People are fed up with this insane shit, but the media never talks about it, the justice system never prosecutes it, and the fucking poliitcians only do what they are told to do by the rich bastards who bribed them.
It's still a populist rabble, but I don't sense that they are getting much traction with the public. Maybe in select urban centers, but not through most of the country.
In the case of a catastrophe like a second great depression who do you think would come out on top though? My modest amount of money is on the billionaire fatcats.
People are pissed and they are lashing out. The mainstream media still has a death grip on most peoples minds and opinions, so they are directing the anger of the majority into safe places where it can be manipulated. The wave of fascism you speak of was brought to you by Goldman-Sachs. Bought and paid for popular opinion. This ought to get interesting.
Peak oil theory dictates that many people will have to die pretty quickly... basically we will have to retrace the exponential surge in human population that accompanied cheap hydrocarbons.
I'm hoping for something relatively merciful and natural like a killer flu. Anything besides WWIII. But I fear people are about to get incredibly desperate long before some (non-man-made) super virus is likely to take us out.
A likely scenario in the US is that protests turn to riots turn to massacres, and the massive police state which we've put in place with the TSA and DHS will attempt to contain violence to smaller regions. Manhattan will be locked down completely and they might just just shut off the electric/water/comm and make it quick. Places like LA and Phoenix will be easily locked down since they have so few routes of egress. Fuel will be rationed and air travel impossible - basically everyone has to stay put.
I moved out to the countryside just a few months ago to start hunkering down. Going to grow some food and get to know my neighbors.
Even if the 2012 "predictions" are false i seriously believe we are doing a really good job of bringing it on ourselves. The planet needs to change its ways, I'm a New Zealander and i have seen the climate change in my country just in my generation alone. I used to sit in the sun ALL day and go brown as a Samoan, now the burn time is 9 minutes. A big, massive FUCK YOU for all the people who think climate change is untrue. If you honestly believe that its all a sham, close the garage door turn on the car and see what happens........ Now picture that on a global scale. Don't get me started on peak oil. I think i would like to have a beer with Ten_liver_lips.
Why do you say that? I am still learning about it and forming my own opinions. However, we know that oil is a finite resource, that's a fact. I guess nature can reproduce it of course, but the rate is slow enough to be ignored for the sake of this thread. So if we know there's a finite amount, and we're getting it out as fast as we can, at some point there is none left. We have the technology to find oil, we have the technology to see how much is there (even if no one shares their reserves numbers. So why don't you think that we're running out?
That exact scenario, no, that was conjecture. I could imagine at least a hundred different ways this could play out. But that's close to the top of of the list and consistent with OP's question of will we see extreme fascism soon.
The part I AM certain of is that the rate of oil production has a bounding effect both on economic activity and the number of humans that can be sustained. And that rate of production will peak if it has not already done so in the last four years. There are many ways to reduce population ranging from peaceful things such as birth control to nuclear war.
If I had to put odds on something I'd say that those broader predictons about peak oil are 99.99% likely to occur. What's the other 0.01%? I don't know, but since this is r/conspiracy I'll concede that the data could all be fake, the government could have already built some incredible facility that nobody knows about which uses nuclear power to extract carbon from the air and turn it back into liquid fuel, space aliens could land and show us how to fix all our problems... that sort of thing is what I'll put in the 0.01%.
The same math that predicts peak oil, shows the exponentially rising amount of solar panels will be able to meet the world demand of energy in less than 20 years.
The scenario you describe is really unfortunate. Average ppl have 2 choices: become a farmer and grow your own food or die. And once the dust settles, the surviving farmers will probably be forced to accept some neo-feudal rule.
The same math that predicts peak oil, shows the exponentially rising amount of solar panels will be able to meet the world demand of energy in less than 20 years.
Electricity is not the same as liquid hydrocarbons (unleased/diesel/propane/natural gas). Sure it can offset some fraction of that demand, but do you have a way to run our tractors and airplanes on solar power? What about all the mining equipment that we need to obtain metals, concrete, phosphorus etc. How will we convert our entire transportation infrastructure to solar/electric in time? Can we get enough lithium to make all the batteries we will need? Do we have the capital to build it all in time?
Average ppl have 2 choices: become a farmer and grow your own food or die.
If you have the money yes the best strategy is to get some land right now and become as self-sufficient as possible. Or at least move to a place where your neighbors have land. Modern commercial farming, however, will become unprofitable due to rising input costs and difficulty getting your product to market. Future food production will be more organic, more local, and much more expensive.
The solution is simple. Take all of the people who are playing Farmville and have them spend that time on growing real food in local organic gardens instead. Problem solved.
Aside from the fact that every "bio-diesel" option, "solar" option consumes almost as much oil to produce. PVC is oil, the manufacturing plants used to make PVC or solar panels or whatever else use oil to lubricate the workings or even power the plant itself. So interconnected the planet is all it will take is couple of even really small bumps and the system stops working. Can't explain that.
The same math that predicts peak oil, shows the exponentially rising amount of solar panels will be able to meet the world demand of energy in less than 20 years
According to Ray Kurzweil, it's less than five years, if we coordinated properly. Won't happen; 10-15 is more realistic. The Oil-collapse end-of-civilization scenario is absurdly unlikely.
Nice to see you saying things that don't involve Jews.
The U.S. is going to keep marching toward the fulfillment of Israeli goals and it's foreign policy. Thus the disarmament of middle eastern countries on our behalf will continue and so will the wars. Nationalism in the U.S. has become a mixture of Fascism and Zionism. Caling people anti-american if they don't like wars and anti-semitic if they're agains Israel's zionist regime. The system is rigged. No change is going to come fighting through the system. It is very posible the U.S. is going to attack Iran but before we're probably going to see something big happen. Staged bigger than 9/11 perhaps. Nuclear perhaps. Who knows? Anything can happen now. WWIII can start, martial-law, the sky's the limit. They knew it was going to be like this. They had planed the recession and they're prepared for the riots. I say expect something big on their behalf and soon.
I say too little too late. They had their chance with 9-11 and failed to sufficiently incite hate against the Muslim countries (granted they came close, but people are beginning to see the ruse for what it is). The economic meltdown is just a pre-planned poor-man's draft (Vietnam all over again) except I have a feeling the protest movement is going to be the one "too big to fail" this time around.
There will definitely be a catalyst of some sort that will spark the current events into a massive shitstorm, the likes of which have not been seen in a few hundred years. This will be a snowball effect of violence that will cascade out of control, throwing the entire country and possibly other bits of the world into total chaos and absolute anarchy.
Thats if things keep going in the direction that they are. If nothing changes soon then my prediction will definitely come to terms within the next 12 months.
I would suggest to stockpile canned goods and other non-perishable food goods as well as weapons for self defense. A revolution is coming and I can't say that I can see any way of events slowing or preventing the coming shitstorm of violence.
This is just my opinion based on what I have been reading and observing for quite some time now.
TV really took off post-sixties, and is largely responsible for the brainwashed majority we are trying to wake up today. It is the Internet that is responsible for overthrowing the TV-era, and hopefully lead to a more transparent/balanced society. Whether or not you think the Internet will do this is a different discussion, but I think that is the difference between the 60's and now. Connectivity.
I was just talking to a friend about the Internet perhaps being the foundation of the change we can bring about in this era. Its ability to store and distribute so much data from around the world is incredible; and it is clear that the 'powers that be' are very interested in putting 'caps' and restrictions on it...
You are absolutely right. Thus the whole fear mongering you hear in the MSM about the danger of hackers turning off electric plants, nuclear plants, satellites, government facilities and what not through the internet.
We are talking about control systems that have nothing to do with the WWW. Things that don't have any reason whatsoever to be connected to the internet and if some are, which is very unlikely for security reasons obviously, they would have class D or E ips. Unreachable and completely private. Then again most people believe religiously in whatever the MSM says.
I think taken as a whole it is a reflection of the collective consciousness of everyone involved. As it becomes more complex the internet becomes a more accurate depiction of our own mind...The concept of artificial intelligence surpassing the power of the human mind is already in existence - it is the internet! The collective intelligence of all the participating members of the internet is far greater than any government or google system could compete with - this is the fatal mistake of the powers that behave made, in my view.
I would say FalseGDP's post best explains why this has not happened in the 60's. This has a lot to do with how many people are involved and the ability to almost instantaneously notify people on the other side of the country the goings on during protest.
All it will take is for the corporate controlled police force/politicians to do the wrong thing and the reaction will be swift and violent. Remember, a person is smart, but people are stupid and panic easily. It will be mob mentality on a level that has not been seen before.
4 decades of comfortable post-scarcity existence divides us from now and then. In 1960, there were only about 3 billion people in the world, and only 190 million in the USA.
At present, people have to either get used to making significant adjustments to the way they eke out an existence, or become inured to the routine eviction of small segments of the global population from the top tier economy.
Since you have so much more information than I do why not share some of it with the rest of us? I was merely making a statement based on my own observations of how things are going.
Non-sequitur. It isn't about information I have, it's about information he doesn't. I'm amazed that a bunch of people who, often, are self-schooled on politics and economics, think they know more than the professional experts based on reading a few news articles and a conspiracy forums or two. That's called being delusional.
The world has continued for hundreds of years without ending; this guy has no more evidence that global collapse is coming within a year than Harold Camping has that the rapture is this Friday.
But he's welcome to believe what he wants, and act accordingly. If he wants to remove himself from society to prepare for the coming Zombie Apocalypse or whatever the fuck, that's fine by me.
I know what I'm talking about. These things are getting more and more violent every day. Tensions and tempers have been rising for five weeks now. There will be a snapping point where one of the sides involved lashes out if the other does not give in soon. I never said anything about the world ending, only that there is most definitely a shitstorm brewing here in the US.
Revolutions and civil wars all begin through civil unrest at some level. That is what is happening here right now. This has been going on throughout history since before man learned how to write. I do not see what makes the US so different from any other country that it is immune to revolution.
Tensions and tempers have been rising for five weeks now.
Tensions and tempers have been rising for 10 years. They're no higher than they were during Vietnam.
Wars can last an absurdly long time, but they don't last forever. It won't happen. People get fed up.
I do not see what makes the US so different from any other country that it is immune to revolution.
In almost every revolution in history, the people rose up to cast off a perpetual, brutal dictator. Let's take a look at the Arab spring - In Egypt, Mubarak has ruled for 30 years. In Yemen, Saleh has ruled for the same amount of time. Bashar Assad, the so called "president" of Syria, also rules with an iron fist.
Each time the French revolted, it was against a King. In England - against a King. But take a look at the Weimar regime in Germany - they were toppled through democracy. Hitler was popular. He didn't get swept to power by a brutal coup, he got there through democracy.
Whenever a coup installs a brutal dictator, 99 times out of 100, they're replacing another dictator. Sometimes this is a de-facto dictator - for example, a "President" who has won every election for the last 20 years, despite being in a supposedly democratic environment - obviously one so absurdly corrupt that it can't even be called a Democracy anymore.
America is full of incompetence and corruption - let no one convince you otherwise. But I've looked at history, and there's something the people need to understand: there's corruption, and there's corruption. America is corrupt, but the nations where the "democratic leaders" have been forcibly overthrown are nations where the corruption was exponentially worse.
Democratic nations - even coporation-controlled ones - have a pressure valve; it's called the polls. They're not perfect, they're not incorruptible, but when the majority of people believe that violent revolution isn't necessary because they can vote, violent revolution is unlikely.
I'll briefly touch on the so-called "extremists" on either side of our spectrum.
The Tea Party - the right-wing nutjobs agitating right now - are nothing new. They're just the newest incarnation of the Know-Nothing Party; we have seen them before, and they will disappear just like everyone else.
OWS has a lot of publicity, but the people actually participating in it are a tiny minority; their voices will likely be heard. I don't care what anyone says, but I'm about 90 percent certain that Obama has a second-term sealed up; no Republican can convince the working-class he's on their side.
Obama's second term will be different from his first; second terms always are. Presidents have to spend the first four years worrying about re-election, and playing it safe; Obama will be bolder. The Congress we have right now will fail - miserably. By 2014, Democrats will have a majority in both houses of congress, and reform will pass. The wealthy will be taxed again.
To quote from Battlestar Galactica, "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again". History is full of patterns, and the human mind hasn't changed that much. Circumstances have, but they will adjust. I am confident that even the greedy corporations will realize that they have no choice but to capitulate to the masses and allow a bit of redistribution. The rich will have higher taxes, Obama will force us to have healthcare, and people will stop caring about whether or not he closed Guantamo bay, because Americans won't be worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. We're a nation that is, despite what people tell you about debt, filthy rich. There is no need for any American to starve.
Of course, I'm not sitting here saying this with certainty. I'm not saying that the world is definitely going to be fixed along this timeline. But it fits with previous historical patterns in this nation, and it isn't far-fetched at all; I've pitched it to a number of economists and sociologists I know, and none of them have said "that's retarded". But I don't for a moment have the illusion that I know something that no one else does, and that I've somehow predicted the future. I'm not saying "GUYS, AMERICA IS GOING TO COLLAPSE IN A YEAR, ALL THE SIGNS ARE THERE, I'M CERTAIN!", because history is littered with people who were certain of things that never happened; it's just another form of Harold Camping.
TL;DR: Fuck you, I worked really hard on this! Read it, or move on! Please?
Since we have graduated into calling names and cursing at one another let me start off with stating that you are an asshole and I don't like you as much as I initially did. Now let us take a step back and look at my parent post for a moment, that part you obviously did not read.
There will definitely be a catalyst of some sort that will spark the current events into a massive shitstorm, the likes of which have not been seen in a few hundred years. This will be a snowball effect of violence that will cascade out of control, throwing the entire country and possibly other bits of the world into total chaos and absolute anarchy.
Thats if things keep going in the direction that they are. If nothing changes soon then my prediction will definitely come to terms within the next 12 months.
I would suggest to stockpile canned goods and other non-perishable food goods as well as weapons for self defense. A revolution is coming and I can't say that I can see any way of events slowing or preventing the coming shitstorm of violence.
This is just my opinion based on what I have been reading and observing for quite some time now.
Let me break that down for you as you obviously did not read my entire post. I on the other hand took the time to read all of yours very carefully, since I thought we were having an intelligent and civil discussion.
I made a prediction of a probable outcome based on information I have, followed by a statement admitting that things could just as easily go the other way. Yes I could have been more clear with the alternate possibility which seems to be the one you are most hopeful for if not outright sure of. The main topic of this discussion was the possibility of eruptions of violence over these protests, I tried to remain on topic.
When talking about tensions and other nations overthrowing dictators and what not, you neglected to mention the American Civil War. Which was a war fought by a democratic nation within itself. Thats the whole point of civil wars, they happen when the governed is fed up with the ones governing. Civil wars and revolutionary wars begin with some level of civil unrest, which is rampant in today's America. Yes democracy has a way that it can fix this but not if the people who write and enact legislation do so at the command of corporations.
That is where the civil unrest is coming from as more and more people are becoming fed up with companies and banks ruling over the people we elected to govern us. I understand that this can end peacefully, what you are incapable of comprehending is the impending doom ahead if things do not happen the way that they should.
Regardless of who is right or wrong in this argument as it truly only boils down to our educated guess for the outcome of this whole mess. These are just our opinions. While you have the right to your opinion, and I to mine, you are incorrect to attack me just because I do not share the same faith in our democracy as you do. Can we not simply agree that we disagree on the end result of this political movement?
Welp, I'm embarassed. I put words in your mouth, and I was wrong to do it, and I'm sorry. You sounded more certain in the middle of that post than at the end, and I misunderstood.
I'll say this - I supported my argument with half a dozen historical examples that point to a pattern. As I said, all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
When talking about tensions and other nations overthrowing dictators and what not, you neglected to mention the American Civil War.
The American Civil War had unique circumstances; people my tell you it was about federal oppression of the states, but it wasn't; it was about the Federal government interfering with the State's supposed right to be oppressors. Slavery had to go, and the people in the South refused to accept it. There is no singular institution which will have a similar affect; what, are we going to go to war over gay marriage?
Impending doom
The impending doom is such an unlikely path; the safeguards against revolution have to fail at every turn; there will be multiple chances for this path to be averted, and every single one must be ignored or bypassed. I think it's impossible to say this is likely, as in a democratic nation, it's simply never happened before.
Keep in mind, as I said, the Civil War was about one group's desire to deny democracy to an entire group of people.
Which professional experts would that be, exactly? Do you mean the guys who work for the government, who tell us we have to give the government more money?
Oh no, you're right! Everyone works for the government! Their vast payroll has convinced all the sheeple that everything is fine! CONJECTURE IS EVIDENCE PEOPLE, WAKE UP, ZOMBIES!
I wrote a loooong piece in this thread about why this whole "global revolution America world collapse" is so unlikely. Perhaps that's where you should start.
No, I'm serious. To which "professional experts" are you referring?
Not that it matters, as such arguments are simply the "appeal to authority" fallacy. If you can't articulate a position in your own words then what's the point in having a conversation?
If you can't articulate a position in your own words then what's the point in having a conversation?
In the comment this is replying to:
I wrote a loooong piece in this thread about why this whole "global revolution America world collapse" is so unlikely. Perhaps that's where you should start.
It's like you scanned my post for names, and hit submit when I didn't quote experts. Furthermore, this is just a deflection from what I actually said; I mentioned vaguely that there were experts, and now it's as if I've made a serious assertion which I've got to defend to you.
I didn't. All I said was
I'm amazed that a bunch of people who, often, are self-schooled on politics and economics, think they know more than the professional experts based on reading a few news articles and a conspiracy forums or two. That's called being delusional.
It's like thinking that because you've spent a year reading biology textbooks and science journals, you know more about biology than Richard Dawkins. That's all.
At the end of the day, it really isn't my job to convince every 9/11 truther or person who thinks the end of the world is coming that they're wrong. You believe whatever you want; if you're wrong, you can deal with the consequences, if there are any.
Here's my post, if you decide to read it. It's lucky that I did articulate exactly why I don't think there's going to be a violent, global collapse, or even an American revolution, so I'd have a reply when you dusted off your "LOOK YOU'RE NOT EVEN SMART ENOUGH TO SPEND ALL YOUR TIME CONVINCING ME OF YOUR POINT OF VIEW!" bullshit.
Based on the context, I thought you were appealing to professional, expert economists. I just wanted to know who. I now have no idea what the fuck you are on about, and no, I'm not going to go read all your shouting drivel to try and figure it out. Good day.
The leaders of this plutocratic oligarchy are going to come to their senses, realize they have been arrogant, selfish, uncaring, or otherwise indifferent to their fellow man. They are going to apologize with sincerity. Perhaps cry a bit..... and ... every one drives away in a in free-energy, alien reversed engineered, flying car. Life is so good that no one can stop smiling.
"come to their senses" is one of my favorite phrases, as if the people exploiting the workers are good people who just need someone to point out their flaws. As soon as THEY realize how honest hardworking people feel, then we can all live in a blissful utopia!!
The rescue me/discover me fantasy never ends and keeps so many stuck doing nothing to help themselves. Go now and take a course in plumbing, electricity, gardening, etc., anything that will give you skills that you will need if the electricity goes out or fuel becomes too expensive.
I hate to be that guy, but in my mind I've been really wanting something like this to happen. Before you think I hate anyone, let me explain why I'm looking somewhat forward to this.
We as human have replaced compassion, friendship, and all other moral values with materialistic shit. I worked at Starbucks, I worked at Apple Retail. I even worked in a casino at one time. I've seen the worst come out of people who think they are entitled to treat hourly workers like shit.
I worked at a Starbucks in the Financial District of SF. I had the early morning traders who didn't tip. The people who came in and had zero patience for waiting on their drinks. You didn't get the drink order right? You got yelled at. You just had to take it because you needed the job because you were going to night school
To better yourself. But they don't know that nor do they care.
I worked at the flagship Apple Store in SF. I was the guy behind the Genius Bar who had to hear people complain their week was ruined because the iPod they had beaten up in their purse wasn't working. They couldn't go to the gym without their precious iPod playing music for them to work out to. You had to talk to my manager because it was plain as day you broke your iPod and it's not covered. My manager comes over and makes me give you a replacement iPod this one time. Because you stomped your feet hard enough and got your way.
I've seen videos, read books, read magazines of 13 year olds in Africa who are badasses with a knife or a gun. They have shit to do. Protect their village, fight in a civil war, they have to work their ass of for their livelihood. No technology, no BS media showing XFactor, no Starbucks, no 9 meetings. Kids have to go fuck shit up for their village. I'm so looking forward to these people who dont know jack shit about anything outside of their own bubble survive when shit hits the fan in this country.
Imagine, infrastructure gone, military rule in place, have to scrounge for supplies. These assholes would have zero clue on how to fend for themselves.
It sickens me that this country has let it self become overrun by people telling us how to think. How buy shit from the freezer aisle. 1 click buying off of Amazon. We've let society forget how we got here.
I'm sorry if I'm a Debbie Downer on this. When shit hits the fan, a good majority of the country will be at the mercy of someone smart enough to survive. I just snicker at these people who will have no clue how to solve their problems when the time comes.
Down vote all you want, this is how I feel we've become.
Until you started talking about how great it will be when the people who used to dick with you get screwed over in the future. That was a little weird.
Time to start stockpiling food and water to get through at last 30 days. When the SHTF you may want to hunker down and keep out of harms way, if at all possible. PS--be sure you have enough toilet paper and toothpaste!
Depends on what 'people' you are talking about. I'm sure Iraqis would tell you that the wave hit them in 1991 and hasn't stopped since and so on and so forth depending on the example.
If you are asking if there is going to be a violent backlash/revolution against the criminal class soon, then i would answer, probably. They don't seem to be taking the legitimate concerns of the OWS movement seriously at all. There is also a rising police state that many are concerned about and eventually might want to form a resistance against. As long as there is gross inequality, no Bill of Rights, poisoned food, etc then people are liable to fight it by all means. And since the corporate state has had no issue using mercenaries and death squads in other countries in the past I don't think it's crazy to think they might bring these tactics home, like they brought assassinations home in the 60's.
I think you are witnessing the beginning of something that could get ugly but either way things are definitely going to change. Feels like history is up for grabs for the first time in a long time.
Our government employed/deployed Blackwater operators during Katrina. To shoot at people, not as medics or S&R. I see no reason they wouldn't use them in some sort of civil unrest.
Exactly. Some of the first responders. That was before i knew about our friends in N.C. i thought they were Special Forces when i saw them on the news, how wrong was I????
To blame this "wave of fascism" on a single entity in the form of a corporation, comprised of many minds, is both naive and absurd and doomed for failure at the onset of such a movement against it if this is the sole reason, sole mindset of the cause and, sadly, I fear that for most participating this is the case; if they even understand more than simply the act of injustice that is taking place on levels beyond that of the financial institution which had been created and persists today is but one form of control; you can be sure that another form will take its place as this one soon will crumble while the vast majority that those protesting, yes even you, are completely unaware of will remain wholly intact and their tentacles will remain imbedded deep into the very base impulses of the society of yesterday and today; tomorrow cannot come soon enough.
Be the change for tomorrow and do not give into the impulses of the old age.
Forgive me, I seem to have offended you for not speaking on a level that is more suitable for some.
The fact of the matter is that this "wave of fascism", as I was alluding to, is not monopolized nor is it a "wave". To suggest that all the blame be placed upon them is the same as blaming one's bad breath on the sore taste bud on the very tip of the tongue for it is the one that causes you to take notice of the pain you feel/see yet the cause remains entirely elusive and completely irrelevant to why you have bad breath, when you feel pain.
For those who don't like using their brains more than absolutely necessary:
Obviously the originators of these kinds of plans operate on a level higher than just one or two entities; the simple joke was that you were somewhat ranting.
Yes, I do tend to do that. "Rant". On and on incessantly. There is much to consider and there is also much to be said. It is far easier to do with the anonymity of the interwebs. If I were speak these thoughts in front of others... well I could only imagine how soon I would meet my demise from someone unwilling to hear the truth.
Soon? You're describing the world we already live in, one which I'm happy to say appears to be moving more and more towards non-violent resolutions to problems.
Loads of people believe that The Collapse or whatever you want to call it is right around the corner. Every. Single. Day.
Any even slightly turbulent time for the government, military, economy, civil rights, religion, or anything else that has a large impact on people or the news will convince some group of people that we're on the brink.
Posing such a question to a group of people who spend their time talking about government conspiracies is nothing more than a circlejerk.
Depends on what you mean by "soon?" I think the idea of a flash point and everything coming to a head in one fell swoop is not going to happen. Because then they'd lose.
It will get ugly because the mainstream media is part of the propaganda machine and not the free press it is supposed to be. A free press doing its job would operate as a relief valve as it would be prosecuting in the court of public opinion the abuses of power - which in turn, in a correctly functioning free society, should vector towards real prosecutions.
When the press can no longer be trusted to accurately reflect the mood of the country or express its frustration , at some point things could tumble into violence when the tipping point is reached where their collusion cannot be tolerated and public trust has completely broken down. This will take much more than a mere majority because the control it exerts can be precisely measured and has become a science.
But I sense we're edging close to that point given the tone of the press. It used to address a broader socio-economic range. Since 9/11 its focus has become narrower and lower. Lately more and more people are saying they think the country has lost its mind. We haven't lost our mind, we lost our media. If it seems to a lot of people that what we see in the media speaks to increasingly less astute people, it's because it is. It needs to hold onto a large enough segment of the population to keep things from that tipping point and have enough people parroting the propaganda to aid in that goal. It's getting to the point where the only people that will buy the propaganda and keep the tide of public opinion from tipping are the people incapable of understanding what is really happening - hence the lower socio-economic targeting of its propaganda.
And there are more of the lower, public fool system (un)educated than people able to think clearly and solve problems without demanding government intervention.
I DON'T KNOW WHO FUCKED ME, BUT SOMEBODY GONNA GET HURT RRREAAAL BAD!
Pretty much every protester.
What if people are getting set up to accept an even more brutal and fascistic system? If you're into the whole Hegelian Dialectical analysis, it's problem-reaction-solution in action. The unthinking mobs will be demanding "real" change, and you can bet these elites will have a system ready to replace the current one. It will be a system that is all unicorns and rainbows on the surface, but will end up being even more oppressive and unjust than what we have now.
Yes, sadly that is what history has shown us. And, unfortunately, history repeats itself because those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
Why? The fact is there is MORE than enough room for all of us. In fact all 6+ billion of us could fit in Austrailia, each of us would have a quarter acre to live on, and there would be plenty of room in Austrailia left over. The rest of the world would be sans humans.
Take a plane ride and see how much uninhabited land there is all over the world. Yes, cities are overpopulated in many cases, but that has been done through social engineering by governments. We are easier to control and keep tabs upon when we are herded together.
Overpopulation is a myth that was first posited by Thomas Malthus. It is not true. There is also enough money and resources. Sadly, it is all in the hands of a few extremely wealthy families in the world, who came about their money by cheating the masses and continue to scam us through banking and laws.
Funny, for the last several years I've been having this feeling that the dark ages hadn't ever ended and that a new golden age was upon us. With all the protesting and people standing up for their rights things are beginning to look like positive change is on the horizon for the first time.
I do hope so. I'm not an expert or anything but many cultures believe that 2012 is the end of a dark age and the beginning of a long assent into a new golden age of humanity. I have a glimmer of optimism, hoping that our human condition will improve. Only a little more downturn left.
The human brain is designed to be overly sensitive to threats, to consider as many violent outcomes as possible. In an environment where bad things often do happen, it was better for our ancestors to be over-prepared than under-. And so we are a little bit sensitive, a little bit concerned, a little bit fearful when we generally needn't be.
Your brain is just perceiving a potential threat and making it important. If it doesn't happen, well, you wasted a few bucks on shotguns and bottled water. If it does, you're more likely to survive if you have acted on your concerns.
Evolution is pretty groovy but it definitely can make people think there are things out there which generally aren't likely to be.
I can see rising nationalism through job protectionism and that is dangerous. The collapse of the Euro would probably lead to a major European war. Russia would make a play for the former Soviet countries and Poland to contain a European collapse, and Germany would probably end up at war with nearly every European country it's lent any money to, as those countries try to reassert their independence after Germany's spent billions bailing them out.
I have spent plenty of time contemplating a SHTF scenario. I started preparing for it in fact. Food...sure. No debt.....always a good idea. Seeds...good idea. Water.....need that. Well insulated home....can't miss there.
But if we find ourselves in a 'The Road' or 'The Postman' type of environment, I don't think that I need to see more than a couple years of that. There is no end to preparation. One could easily spend ALL of their time and money only to find that things somehow normalize in a few years.
I don't deny that. This is just a ridiculous post by the OP. Providing no follow up information. He's broadcasting a hunch, and everyone's upvoting without giving it a second thought. Nobody will ever take /r/conspiracy seriously because of shit like this.
Everyone is upvoting because they feel the decline in civil liberties and the decline of our society. Drive around the inner city and see what a third world city looks like. Nothing but bars, liquor stores, check cashing places, fast food restaurants, pawn shops, boarded up buildings and businesses surrounded by iron gates on the windows and doors.
From dictionary.com:
fas·cism
[fash-iz-uhm]
noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
If I didn't know better, I'd say there was going to be a second holocaust.
Look around r/conspiracy, if you want to know how people feel. Jews are evil, Jews run the world, Jews did WTC...blood will run. Sixty five years later, the antisemites have managed to convince themselves that the holocaust either didn't happen, or was perpetrated by Jews on themselves, so they had it coming, neither viewpoint being supported by evidence; the amount of absolute, vitriolic hate aimed at the Jewish people because of the actions of the government of the nation of Israel and a few corrupt bankers is absurd. When one Jew commits a crime, Americans treat it as if all Jews have committed that crime. This subreddit is full of people like that - tttt0tttt, UndergroundRecorder, Occidentalist, MartinTimothy, me_and_1, to name a few - who present the same antisemitic viewpoints without any unbiased evidence.
Don't let this happen. Don't be a part of this. If you want to rebel, there are perfectly valid targets, but the entire Jewish population isn't one of them.
I think you're confusing anti-Israel with anti-semitic.
I'm really not, and that's the entire problem. The vast majority of people I see on here who speak about zionism etc. also refer to Jews as a race, rather than just Israel. If everyone were talking about how bad Israel is, I wouldn't be debating them; Israel is no friend of mine.
But it's not them, it's the Jews. It's always about how the Jews control Wall Street, not some Jews, or even the Zionists. The flavor of what I've seen isn't just anti-Zionist; if it were, I wouldn't have such an issue. It is anti-semitic.
I've been assured multiple times that this is just a very vocal minority, but I can only speak to what I've seen.
Israel is an evil empire
Israel is far from an "empire", what with being the size of New Jersey, and being a democracy - albeit one controlled by idiot fundamentalists - but still, your point isn't that far off. They've done terrible things...and it should be pretty telling that the word I'm debating is "empire", not "evil".
But it isn't even Israel, it's the government. We ask people to distinguish between the American people and the American government; why do the anti-Israel people not follow this standard?
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
On the third day he called all the sages together and said to them. "Speak and argue with one another and make clear to me which is the best religion." They began to dispute with one another without arriving at any results until the King said to the Christian priest "What do you think? Of the religion of the Jews and the Muslims, which is to be preferred?" The priest answered: "The religion of the Israelites is better than that of the Muslims."
The King then asked the kadi [a Muslim judge and scholar]: "What do you say? Is the religion of the Israelites, or that of the Christians preferable?" The kadi answered: "The religion of the Israelites is preferable."
Upon this the King said: "If this is so, you both have admitted with your own mouths that the religion of the Israelites is better Wherefore, trusting in the mercies of God and the power of the Almighty, I choose the religion of Israel, that is, the religion of Abraham.
Can you get to your point? You haven't actually said anything yet.
It sounds as if you agree, that Jews aren't responsible for everything?
In any case, the religion of Judaism is just as wrong and backwards as Christianity or Islam; it's just that the majority of American Jews are "reform", which can be read as either "closet atheist" or "I go to synagogue on Yom Kippur!"
All racism aside, your point of view is valid but you jumped off at a certain point when you generalized all americans as anti-Semites. The climate here is pretty damn pro-Israel and pro Judaism. There is a lot more anger directed at blacks and Latinos for no good reason.
This was not my intent; that's why the post says "if I didn't know any better". I know all Americans are not antisemites. But there is an air here - on r/conspiracy - of antisemitism. My only goal was to get these people to take a long look in the mirror. Apparently it won't work, since anyone who this post is directed towards only sees ZIONIST JEWS regardless of where they look.
To everyone else, no, I don't think America is antisemitic.
By the way: When Germany occupied 1/2 of Poland many "Jews" went east. The allies (Russia with help) killed 1/2 of all Jews that were killed during WWII. (In eastern Poland and Russia).
No one is hating on the descendents of the people who were the Hebrews. if any one is being hated on it is liars and thieves getting hated on.
When someone says "Jews are evil", they aren't saying "LIARS AND THIEVES", they're saying Jews. All Jews, everywhere. You can claim no one is hating on these people, but you're just plain wrong.
Not that it matters; he'd never seek refuge in Israel, and if he did, he'd be immediately arrested. You know, for war crimes? It's not like Israel doesn't have laws, or that Jews are exempt from them.
In any case, Gaddafi is a Muslim. He has Jewish ancestry, and this highlights the problems with the Law of Return.
Thanks for the interesting tidbit, but as I said, I'm done with r/conspiracy; this includes you. Have a nice life!
You are defending a single race from the onslaught of so many others.
You should be defending so many others from the onslaught of one.
What a fucking disgusting false dichotomy.
This post is nothing but an attempt to call me a racist by setting up a "Jews vs. the world" scenario, as if all races and people are united in harmony against the Jewish menace, and as if by refuting and fighting antisemitism, I am oppressing other peoples.
This is a moronic opinion, and I have no further reason to talk to you if you actually believe this.
I am against racism in all its forms, and I believe that as long as you continue to see the world only in terms of "races" which, despite being made up of completely unrelated individuals, are engaging in wars and alliances with each other. This is why your worldview is idiotic and wrong.
Stop describing Earth in terms of race vs. race. Start looking at individuals.
You should be ashamed of yourself
Right back at you. You twist my words to pretend I'm a racist, but you're the one trying to pit Jews against the rest of the world, as if there's this stark divide, whereby Jews aren't human, and all other races are. You're disgusting, and I have nothing else to say to you.
This post is nothing but an attempt to call me a racist by setting up a "Jews vs. the world" scenario, as if all races and people are united in harmony against the Jewish menace, and as if by refuting and fighting antisemitism, I am oppressing other peoples.
Are you familiar with the Talmud? I am thinking you are not. If you are then you are disguising yourself quite poorly. That is the exact teachings behind such a faith.
am against racism in all its forms, and I believe that as long as you continue to see the world only in terms of "races" which, despite being made up of completely unrelated individuals, are engaging in wars and alliances with each other. This is why your worldview is idiotic and wrong. Stop describing Earth in terms of race vs. race. Start looking at individuals.
I wholeheartedly agree. However, not everyone sees it as such. Clearly. As I am attempting to point out to you.
Right back at you. You twist my words to pretend I'm a racist, but you're the one trying to pit Jews against the rest of the world, as if there's this stark divide, whereby Jews aren't human, and all other races are. You're disgusting, and I have nothing else to say to you. The last word is yours.
your point of view is valid but you jumped off at a certain point when you generalized all americans as anti-Semites.
... and are mistaken to think that Jews are in fact of Judea - a land that never even existed.
That is mvlazysusan's point. Are you unfamiliar with Khazaria? There is more than enough information in this sub to bring you up to speed.
"ZIONIST JEWS" are in that category. If not by blood, by indoctrination. Just because one has a differing view or stance does not exclude them from being a Jew, merely a Zionist. If there are any true Isrealite left I would be surprised.
Also, what is an "American Jew"? There is no such thing. A Jew is a Jew. Do not be confused by what you hear or see and in turn are lead to justify into believing.
There is no definite answer to the question of when Judah emerged,[1] although it seems to have occurred no earlier than the 9th century BCE.[2][3] In the 7th century BCE Jerusalem became a city with a population many times greater than before and clear dominance over its neighbours, probably as the result of a cooperative arrangement with the Assyrians, who wished to establish Judah as a pro-Assyrian vassal state controlling the valuable olive industry.
You're welcome, but you're still confused. A rose by any other name... If the glove fits...
What is wrong with calling a Jew a Jew? A Jew knows they are a Jew. A Christian knows they are Christian. Muslim a Muslim. Hindu a Hindu. Caught up on a name; ignore the cause and can't even accept the effects.
If I may say so, don't give up on r/conspiracy just yet.
Of the 40,000 subscribers the anti-semite/zionist crowd are a very vocal minority.
When you extrapolate to the population of the US they are a much much smaller minority. And judging by the things they say, they have neither the brains or the power to impact society anyway.
Needless to say, they are more of a treat to themselves than to anyone else. Pay them no mind.
Don't mock me my friend. It's a condition of mental divergence. I find myself on the planet Ogo, part of an intellectual elite, preparing to subjugate the barbarian hordes on Pluto. But even though this is a totally convincing reality for me in every way, nevertheless Ogo is actually a construct of my psyche. I am mentally divergent, in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life here. When I stop going there, I will be well. Are you also divergent, friend?
The problem with This is that there is plenty of evidence to back up what you think I believe. Unless all of human history is also a figment of only my imagination.
And the problem with This is that there is, again, plenty of evidence to back up what you think I believe.
Information is truth. It holds no bias. And I, like information, seeks only itself for the confirmation - the truth - and hold no bias "regurgitating" selected information, but that is merely on a case by case - individual to individual - manner meant only for that individual. It's not on me to tell you the truth, it's for you to decide what that truth is.
It is pretty incredible that this was written. The white Ashkenazi Jews of today came from Khazaria and converted to Judaism and began to follow the Talmud. So this whole "Right of Return" to Israel by white Russian converts to Talmudic Judaism in the early Middle Ages is quite debatable.
They were/are pagans, the "Talmud" and the "Babylonian Talmud" yield the exact same results in a Google search and are absolutely interchangeable. The origins of the Ashkenazi is central Asia. During the Diaspora the worst offender were made to move across the continent the least offensive only across the street, thus when the king of the Khazars searched for people to teach his nation a new religion he came across those from Judea first. Please note how he is corrected by the Christian priest in the second sentence in this quote:
They began to dispute with one another without arriving at any results until the King said to the Christian priest "What do you think? Of the religion of the Jews and the Muslims, which is to be preferred?" The priest answered: "The religion of the Israelites is better than that of the Muslims." http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/khazars1.asp And that is why they call themselves "Jews" and not Hebrews or Abrahamians.
Here is a nice read:
In the year 1948 in the Pentagon in Washington I addressed a large assembly of the highest ranking officers of the United States Army principally in the G2 branch of Military Intelligence on the highly explosive geopolitical situation in eastern Europe and the Middle East. Then as now that area of the world was a potential threat to the peace of the world and to the security of this nation I explained to them fully the origin of the Khazars and Khazar Kingdom. I felt then as I feel now that without a clear and comprehensive knowledge of that subject it is not possible to understand or to evaluate properly what has been taking place in the world since 1917,
Exactly. Some of the first responders. That was before i knew about our friends in N.C. i thought they were Special Forces when i saw them on the news, how wrong was I????
158 comments
88 tttt0tttt 2011-10-16
People want some sanity restored to their government, their banks, their courts, their media, their schools, their economy. We all see what is happening -- rich fuckers keep getting elected or appointed, and they do nothing to make things better, but only make things worse. There's no way the US military should be occupying two countries in the Middle East, and bombing the shit out of Libya, while at the same time the corrupt government in Washington is giving billions a year to the rich cocksuckers in Israel. People are fed up with this insane shit, but the media never talks about it, the justice system never prosecutes it, and the fucking poliitcians only do what they are told to do by the rich bastards who bribed them.
28 thealienelite 2011-10-16
Slow clap
17 ikilledyourcat 2011-10-16
the country is demanding reform, quick send troops to africa!
16 0w1Farm 2011-10-16
Well said.
9 xcalibre 2011-10-16
tttt0tttt FOR SUPREME OVERLORD OF EARTH
3 Crooooow 2011-10-16
You have not answered the question.
1 redandwhitekop 2011-10-16
touché
-1 lowrads 2011-10-16
It's still a populist rabble, but I don't sense that they are getting much traction with the public. Maybe in select urban centers, but not through most of the country.
3 californiarepublik 2011-10-16
dude there were 853 US cities with an Occupy movement of their own last time i checked...
2 [deleted] 2011-10-16
Bingo, because the majority of people are employed, have kids, own property, or just don't care.
They won't endanger that.
2 KatyScratchPerry 2011-10-16
In the case of a catastrophe like a second great depression who do you think would come out on top though? My modest amount of money is on the billionaire fatcats.
-3 [deleted] 2011-10-16
[deleted]
25 9000sins 2011-10-16
People are pissed and they are lashing out. The mainstream media still has a death grip on most peoples minds and opinions, so they are directing the anger of the majority into safe places where it can be manipulated. The wave of fascism you speak of was brought to you by Goldman-Sachs. Bought and paid for popular opinion. This ought to get interesting.
16 ikilledyourcat 2011-10-16
i love how all these reforms are demanded and what is the govt reaction? WAR WITH IRAN
1 9000sins 2011-10-16
Funnyman? Is that you? Where is Skippy?
1 ikilledyourcat 2011-10-16
?
2 9000sins 2011-10-16
Boondock saints reference.
1 ikilledyourcat 2011-10-16
so is my screen name!
1 Crooooow 2011-10-16
You have not answered the question.
3 9000sins 2011-10-16
Yes people will be suffering and dying soon.
22 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
Peak oil theory dictates that many people will have to die pretty quickly... basically we will have to retrace the exponential surge in human population that accompanied cheap hydrocarbons.
I'm hoping for something relatively merciful and natural like a killer flu. Anything besides WWIII. But I fear people are about to get incredibly desperate long before some (non-man-made) super virus is likely to take us out.
A likely scenario in the US is that protests turn to riots turn to massacres, and the massive police state which we've put in place with the TSA and DHS will attempt to contain violence to smaller regions. Manhattan will be locked down completely and they might just just shut off the electric/water/comm and make it quick. Places like LA and Phoenix will be easily locked down since they have so few routes of egress. Fuel will be rationed and air travel impossible - basically everyone has to stay put.
I moved out to the countryside just a few months ago to start hunkering down. Going to grow some food and get to know my neighbors.
come join us on r/collapse
2 Absurd_Cam 2011-10-16
Peak Oil is an unfounded doomsday call that sucks people in just like the 2012 morons.
4 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
You're right, totally unfounded. No science or data or economics to support it whatsoever. It is EXACTLY like the Mayan calendar thing.
1 jadm2000pounder 2011-10-16
Even if the 2012 "predictions" are false i seriously believe we are doing a really good job of bringing it on ourselves. The planet needs to change its ways, I'm a New Zealander and i have seen the climate change in my country just in my generation alone. I used to sit in the sun ALL day and go brown as a Samoan, now the burn time is 9 minutes. A big, massive FUCK YOU for all the people who think climate change is untrue. If you honestly believe that its all a sham, close the garage door turn on the car and see what happens........ Now picture that on a global scale. Don't get me started on peak oil. I think i would like to have a beer with Ten_liver_lips.
3 AthlonRob 2011-10-16
Why do you say that? I am still learning about it and forming my own opinions. However, we know that oil is a finite resource, that's a fact. I guess nature can reproduce it of course, but the rate is slow enough to be ignored for the sake of this thread. So if we know there's a finite amount, and we're getting it out as fast as we can, at some point there is none left. We have the technology to find oil, we have the technology to see how much is there (even if no one shares their reserves numbers. So why don't you think that we're running out?
0 [deleted] 2011-10-16
[deleted]
3 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
That exact scenario, no, that was conjecture. I could imagine at least a hundred different ways this could play out. But that's close to the top of of the list and consistent with OP's question of will we see extreme fascism soon.
The part I AM certain of is that the rate of oil production has a bounding effect both on economic activity and the number of humans that can be sustained. And that rate of production will peak if it has not already done so in the last four years. There are many ways to reduce population ranging from peaceful things such as birth control to nuclear war.
If I had to put odds on something I'd say that those broader predictons about peak oil are 99.99% likely to occur. What's the other 0.01%? I don't know, but since this is r/conspiracy I'll concede that the data could all be fake, the government could have already built some incredible facility that nobody knows about which uses nuclear power to extract carbon from the air and turn it back into liquid fuel, space aliens could land and show us how to fix all our problems... that sort of thing is what I'll put in the 0.01%.
2 me_and_1 2011-10-16
The same math that predicts peak oil, shows the exponentially rising amount of solar panels will be able to meet the world demand of energy in less than 20 years.
The scenario you describe is really unfortunate. Average ppl have 2 choices: become a farmer and grow your own food or die. And once the dust settles, the surviving farmers will probably be forced to accept some neo-feudal rule.
2 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
Electricity is not the same as liquid hydrocarbons (unleased/diesel/propane/natural gas). Sure it can offset some fraction of that demand, but do you have a way to run our tractors and airplanes on solar power? What about all the mining equipment that we need to obtain metals, concrete, phosphorus etc. How will we convert our entire transportation infrastructure to solar/electric in time? Can we get enough lithium to make all the batteries we will need? Do we have the capital to build it all in time?
If you have the money yes the best strategy is to get some land right now and become as self-sufficient as possible. Or at least move to a place where your neighbors have land. Modern commercial farming, however, will become unprofitable due to rising input costs and difficulty getting your product to market. Future food production will be more organic, more local, and much more expensive.
3 destraht 2011-10-16
The solution is simple. Take all of the people who are playing Farmville and have them spend that time on growing real food in local organic gardens instead. Problem solved.
2 jadm2000pounder 2011-10-16
Aside from the fact that every "bio-diesel" option, "solar" option consumes almost as much oil to produce. PVC is oil, the manufacturing plants used to make PVC or solar panels or whatever else use oil to lubricate the workings or even power the plant itself. So interconnected the planet is all it will take is couple of even really small bumps and the system stops working. Can't explain that.
-3 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
According to Ray Kurzweil, it's less than five years, if we coordinated properly. Won't happen; 10-15 is more realistic. The Oil-collapse end-of-civilization scenario is absurdly unlikely.
Nice to see you saying things that don't involve Jews.
18 [deleted] 2011-10-16
The U.S. is going to keep marching toward the fulfillment of Israeli goals and it's foreign policy. Thus the disarmament of middle eastern countries on our behalf will continue and so will the wars. Nationalism in the U.S. has become a mixture of Fascism and Zionism. Caling people anti-american if they don't like wars and anti-semitic if they're agains Israel's zionist regime. The system is rigged. No change is going to come fighting through the system. It is very posible the U.S. is going to attack Iran but before we're probably going to see something big happen. Staged bigger than 9/11 perhaps. Nuclear perhaps. Who knows? Anything can happen now. WWIII can start, martial-law, the sky's the limit. They knew it was going to be like this. They had planed the recession and they're prepared for the riots. I say expect something big on their behalf and soon.
6 ebonhand1 2011-10-16
I say too little too late. They had their chance with 9-11 and failed to sufficiently incite hate against the Muslim countries (granted they came close, but people are beginning to see the ruse for what it is). The economic meltdown is just a pre-planned poor-man's draft (Vietnam all over again) except I have a feeling the protest movement is going to be the one "too big to fail" this time around.
1 Crooooow 2011-10-16
THEY
15 neurotap 2011-10-16
There will definitely be a catalyst of some sort that will spark the current events into a massive shitstorm, the likes of which have not been seen in a few hundred years. This will be a snowball effect of violence that will cascade out of control, throwing the entire country and possibly other bits of the world into total chaos and absolute anarchy.
Thats if things keep going in the direction that they are. If nothing changes soon then my prediction will definitely come to terms within the next 12 months.
I would suggest to stockpile canned goods and other non-perishable food goods as well as weapons for self defense. A revolution is coming and I can't say that I can see any way of events slowing or preventing the coming shitstorm of violence.
This is just my opinion based on what I have been reading and observing for quite some time now.
14 CanardBeMyName 2011-10-16
What makes you think this will happen now when it didn't happen in the 60's? Not trying to be a dick, just curious.
15 [deleted] 2011-10-16
TV really took off post-sixties, and is largely responsible for the brainwashed majority we are trying to wake up today. It is the Internet that is responsible for overthrowing the TV-era, and hopefully lead to a more transparent/balanced society. Whether or not you think the Internet will do this is a different discussion, but I think that is the difference between the 60's and now. Connectivity.
12 [deleted] 2011-10-16
I was just talking to a friend about the Internet perhaps being the foundation of the change we can bring about in this era. Its ability to store and distribute so much data from around the world is incredible; and it is clear that the 'powers that be' are very interested in putting 'caps' and restrictions on it...
12 [deleted] 2011-10-16
You are absolutely right. Thus the whole fear mongering you hear in the MSM about the danger of hackers turning off electric plants, nuclear plants, satellites, government facilities and what not through the internet.
We are talking about control systems that have nothing to do with the WWW. Things that don't have any reason whatsoever to be connected to the internet and if some are, which is very unlikely for security reasons obviously, they would have class D or E ips. Unreachable and completely private. Then again most people believe religiously in whatever the MSM says.
5 VerbalJungleGym 2011-10-16
Internet, OWS, Anonymous. We are distributed.
2 [deleted] 2011-10-16
I think taken as a whole it is a reflection of the collective consciousness of everyone involved. As it becomes more complex the internet becomes a more accurate depiction of our own mind...The concept of artificial intelligence surpassing the power of the human mind is already in existence - it is the internet! The collective intelligence of all the participating members of the internet is far greater than any government or google system could compete with - this is the fatal mistake of the powers that behave made, in my view.
8 neurotap 2011-10-16
I would say FalseGDP's post best explains why this has not happened in the 60's. This has a lot to do with how many people are involved and the ability to almost instantaneously notify people on the other side of the country the goings on during protest.
All it will take is for the corporate controlled police force/politicians to do the wrong thing and the reaction will be swift and violent. Remember, a person is smart, but people are stupid and panic easily. It will be mob mentality on a level that has not been seen before.
6 lowrads 2011-10-16
4 decades of comfortable post-scarcity existence divides us from now and then. In 1960, there were only about 3 billion people in the world, and only 190 million in the USA.
At present, people have to either get used to making significant adjustments to the way they eke out an existence, or become inured to the routine eviction of small segments of the global population from the top tier economy.
2 slimbruddah 2011-10-16
This is possibile.
But I hope it not be.
-1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Do you know how many people have predicted "global collapse within 1 year!" every year for recorded history?
That's because you think you have more information than you do.
2 neurotap 2011-10-16
Since you have so much more information than I do why not share some of it with the rest of us? I was merely making a statement based on my own observations of how things are going.
I don't see what your problem is here.
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Non-sequitur. It isn't about information I have, it's about information he doesn't. I'm amazed that a bunch of people who, often, are self-schooled on politics and economics, think they know more than the professional experts based on reading a few news articles and a conspiracy forums or two. That's called being delusional.
The world has continued for hundreds of years without ending; this guy has no more evidence that global collapse is coming within a year than Harold Camping has that the rapture is this Friday.
But he's welcome to believe what he wants, and act accordingly. If he wants to remove himself from society to prepare for the coming Zombie Apocalypse or whatever the fuck, that's fine by me.
2 neurotap 2011-10-16
I know what I'm talking about. These things are getting more and more violent every day. Tensions and tempers have been rising for five weeks now. There will be a snapping point where one of the sides involved lashes out if the other does not give in soon. I never said anything about the world ending, only that there is most definitely a shitstorm brewing here in the US.
Revolutions and civil wars all begin through civil unrest at some level. That is what is happening here right now. This has been going on throughout history since before man learned how to write. I do not see what makes the US so different from any other country that it is immune to revolution.
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Tensions and tempers have been rising for 10 years. They're no higher than they were during Vietnam.
Wars can last an absurdly long time, but they don't last forever. It won't happen. People get fed up.
In almost every revolution in history, the people rose up to cast off a perpetual, brutal dictator. Let's take a look at the Arab spring - In Egypt, Mubarak has ruled for 30 years. In Yemen, Saleh has ruled for the same amount of time. Bashar Assad, the so called "president" of Syria, also rules with an iron fist.
Each time the French revolted, it was against a King. In England - against a King. But take a look at the Weimar regime in Germany - they were toppled through democracy. Hitler was popular. He didn't get swept to power by a brutal coup, he got there through democracy.
Whenever a coup installs a brutal dictator, 99 times out of 100, they're replacing another dictator. Sometimes this is a de-facto dictator - for example, a "President" who has won every election for the last 20 years, despite being in a supposedly democratic environment - obviously one so absurdly corrupt that it can't even be called a Democracy anymore.
America is full of incompetence and corruption - let no one convince you otherwise. But I've looked at history, and there's something the people need to understand: there's corruption, and there's corruption. America is corrupt, but the nations where the "democratic leaders" have been forcibly overthrown are nations where the corruption was exponentially worse.
Democratic nations - even coporation-controlled ones - have a pressure valve; it's called the polls. They're not perfect, they're not incorruptible, but when the majority of people believe that violent revolution isn't necessary because they can vote, violent revolution is unlikely.
I'll briefly touch on the so-called "extremists" on either side of our spectrum.
The Tea Party - the right-wing nutjobs agitating right now - are nothing new. They're just the newest incarnation of the Know-Nothing Party; we have seen them before, and they will disappear just like everyone else.
OWS has a lot of publicity, but the people actually participating in it are a tiny minority; their voices will likely be heard. I don't care what anyone says, but I'm about 90 percent certain that Obama has a second-term sealed up; no Republican can convince the working-class he's on their side.
Obama's second term will be different from his first; second terms always are. Presidents have to spend the first four years worrying about re-election, and playing it safe; Obama will be bolder. The Congress we have right now will fail - miserably. By 2014, Democrats will have a majority in both houses of congress, and reform will pass. The wealthy will be taxed again.
To quote from Battlestar Galactica, "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again". History is full of patterns, and the human mind hasn't changed that much. Circumstances have, but they will adjust. I am confident that even the greedy corporations will realize that they have no choice but to capitulate to the masses and allow a bit of redistribution. The rich will have higher taxes, Obama will force us to have healthcare, and people will stop caring about whether or not he closed Guantamo bay, because Americans won't be worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. We're a nation that is, despite what people tell you about debt, filthy rich. There is no need for any American to starve.
Of course, I'm not sitting here saying this with certainty. I'm not saying that the world is definitely going to be fixed along this timeline. But it fits with previous historical patterns in this nation, and it isn't far-fetched at all; I've pitched it to a number of economists and sociologists I know, and none of them have said "that's retarded". But I don't for a moment have the illusion that I know something that no one else does, and that I've somehow predicted the future. I'm not saying "GUYS, AMERICA IS GOING TO COLLAPSE IN A YEAR, ALL THE SIGNS ARE THERE, I'M CERTAIN!", because history is littered with people who were certain of things that never happened; it's just another form of Harold Camping.
TL;DR: Fuck you, I worked really hard on this! Read it, or move on! Please?
2 neurotap 2011-10-16
Since we have graduated into calling names and cursing at one another let me start off with stating that you are an asshole and I don't like you as much as I initially did. Now let us take a step back and look at my parent post for a moment, that part you obviously did not read.
Let me break that down for you as you obviously did not read my entire post. I on the other hand took the time to read all of yours very carefully, since I thought we were having an intelligent and civil discussion.
I made a prediction of a probable outcome based on information I have, followed by a statement admitting that things could just as easily go the other way. Yes I could have been more clear with the alternate possibility which seems to be the one you are most hopeful for if not outright sure of. The main topic of this discussion was the possibility of eruptions of violence over these protests, I tried to remain on topic.
When talking about tensions and other nations overthrowing dictators and what not, you neglected to mention the American Civil War. Which was a war fought by a democratic nation within itself. Thats the whole point of civil wars, they happen when the governed is fed up with the ones governing. Civil wars and revolutionary wars begin with some level of civil unrest, which is rampant in today's America. Yes democracy has a way that it can fix this but not if the people who write and enact legislation do so at the command of corporations.
That is where the civil unrest is coming from as more and more people are becoming fed up with companies and banks ruling over the people we elected to govern us. I understand that this can end peacefully, what you are incapable of comprehending is the impending doom ahead if things do not happen the way that they should.
Regardless of who is right or wrong in this argument as it truly only boils down to our educated guess for the outcome of this whole mess. These are just our opinions. While you have the right to your opinion, and I to mine, you are incorrect to attack me just because I do not share the same faith in our democracy as you do. Can we not simply agree that we disagree on the end result of this political movement?
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Welp, I'm embarassed. I put words in your mouth, and I was wrong to do it, and I'm sorry. You sounded more certain in the middle of that post than at the end, and I misunderstood.
I'll say this - I supported my argument with half a dozen historical examples that point to a pattern. As I said, all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
The American Civil War had unique circumstances; people my tell you it was about federal oppression of the states, but it wasn't; it was about the Federal government interfering with the State's supposed right to be oppressors. Slavery had to go, and the people in the South refused to accept it. There is no singular institution which will have a similar affect; what, are we going to go to war over gay marriage?
The impending doom is such an unlikely path; the safeguards against revolution have to fail at every turn; there will be multiple chances for this path to be averted, and every single one must be ignored or bypassed. I think it's impossible to say this is likely, as in a democratic nation, it's simply never happened before.
Keep in mind, as I said, the Civil War was about one group's desire to deny democracy to an entire group of people.
1 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
Which professional experts would that be, exactly? Do you mean the guys who work for the government, who tell us we have to give the government more money?
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Oh no, you're right! Everyone works for the government! Their vast payroll has convinced all the sheeple that everything is fine! CONJECTURE IS EVIDENCE PEOPLE, WAKE UP, ZOMBIES!
I wrote a loooong piece in this thread about why this whole "global revolution America world collapse" is so unlikely. Perhaps that's where you should start.
1 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
No, I'm serious. To which "professional experts" are you referring?
Not that it matters, as such arguments are simply the "appeal to authority" fallacy. If you can't articulate a position in your own words then what's the point in having a conversation?
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
In the comment this is replying to:
It's like you scanned my post for names, and hit submit when I didn't quote experts. Furthermore, this is just a deflection from what I actually said; I mentioned vaguely that there were experts, and now it's as if I've made a serious assertion which I've got to defend to you.
I didn't. All I said was
It's like thinking that because you've spent a year reading biology textbooks and science journals, you know more about biology than Richard Dawkins. That's all.
At the end of the day, it really isn't my job to convince every 9/11 truther or person who thinks the end of the world is coming that they're wrong. You believe whatever you want; if you're wrong, you can deal with the consequences, if there are any.
Here's my post, if you decide to read it. It's lucky that I did articulate exactly why I don't think there's going to be a violent, global collapse, or even an American revolution, so I'd have a reply when you dusted off your "LOOK YOU'RE NOT EVEN SMART ENOUGH TO SPEND ALL YOUR TIME CONVINCING ME OF YOUR POINT OF VIEW!" bullshit.
0 Ten_liver_lips 2011-10-16
Based on the context, I thought you were appealing to professional, expert economists. I just wanted to know who. I now have no idea what the fuck you are on about, and no, I'm not going to go read all your shouting drivel to try and figure it out. Good day.
13 jwgmac 2011-10-16
This is what's going to happen:
5 Crooooow 2011-10-16
"come to their senses" is one of my favorite phrases, as if the people exploiting the workers are good people who just need someone to point out their flaws. As soon as THEY realize how honest hardworking people feel, then we can all live in a blissful utopia!!
1 doc58 2011-10-16
The rescue me/discover me fantasy never ends and keeps so many stuck doing nothing to help themselves. Go now and take a course in plumbing, electricity, gardening, etc., anything that will give you skills that you will need if the electricity goes out or fuel becomes too expensive.
12 dmareddit 2011-10-16
I hate to be that guy, but in my mind I've been really wanting something like this to happen. Before you think I hate anyone, let me explain why I'm looking somewhat forward to this.
We as human have replaced compassion, friendship, and all other moral values with materialistic shit. I worked at Starbucks, I worked at Apple Retail. I even worked in a casino at one time. I've seen the worst come out of people who think they are entitled to treat hourly workers like shit.
I worked at a Starbucks in the Financial District of SF. I had the early morning traders who didn't tip. The people who came in and had zero patience for waiting on their drinks. You didn't get the drink order right? You got yelled at. You just had to take it because you needed the job because you were going to night school To better yourself. But they don't know that nor do they care.
I worked at the flagship Apple Store in SF. I was the guy behind the Genius Bar who had to hear people complain their week was ruined because the iPod they had beaten up in their purse wasn't working. They couldn't go to the gym without their precious iPod playing music for them to work out to. You had to talk to my manager because it was plain as day you broke your iPod and it's not covered. My manager comes over and makes me give you a replacement iPod this one time. Because you stomped your feet hard enough and got your way.
I've seen videos, read books, read magazines of 13 year olds in Africa who are badasses with a knife or a gun. They have shit to do. Protect their village, fight in a civil war, they have to work their ass of for their livelihood. No technology, no BS media showing XFactor, no Starbucks, no 9 meetings. Kids have to go fuck shit up for their village. I'm so looking forward to these people who dont know jack shit about anything outside of their own bubble survive when shit hits the fan in this country.
Imagine, infrastructure gone, military rule in place, have to scrounge for supplies. These assholes would have zero clue on how to fend for themselves.
It sickens me that this country has let it self become overrun by people telling us how to think. How buy shit from the freezer aisle. 1 click buying off of Amazon. We've let society forget how we got here.
I'm sorry if I'm a Debbie Downer on this. When shit hits the fan, a good majority of the country will be at the mercy of someone smart enough to survive. I just snicker at these people who will have no clue how to solve their problems when the time comes.
Down vote all you want, this is how I feel we've become.
2 scurvebeard 2011-10-16
No downvotes, you had a good point...
Until you started talking about how great it will be when the people who used to dick with you get screwed over in the future. That was a little weird.
2 dmareddit 2011-10-16
Yeah sorry about that one. Just frustrated at ignorance from people. I see it all over downtown SF.
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Time to start stockpiling food and water to get through at last 30 days. When the SHTF you may want to hunker down and keep out of harms way, if at all possible. PS--be sure you have enough toilet paper and toothpaste!
11 0w1Farm 2011-10-16
Depends on what 'people' you are talking about. I'm sure Iraqis would tell you that the wave hit them in 1991 and hasn't stopped since and so on and so forth depending on the example.
If you are asking if there is going to be a violent backlash/revolution against the criminal class soon, then i would answer, probably. They don't seem to be taking the legitimate concerns of the OWS movement seriously at all. There is also a rising police state that many are concerned about and eventually might want to form a resistance against. As long as there is gross inequality, no Bill of Rights, poisoned food, etc then people are liable to fight it by all means. And since the corporate state has had no issue using mercenaries and death squads in other countries in the past I don't think it's crazy to think they might bring these tactics home, like they brought assassinations home in the 60's.
I think you are witnessing the beginning of something that could get ugly but either way things are definitely going to change. Feels like history is up for grabs for the first time in a long time.
edit-spell
6 ledpoizn 2011-10-16
Our government employed/deployed Blackwater operators during Katrina. To shoot at people, not as medics or S&R. I see no reason they wouldn't use them in some sort of civil unrest.
2 jadm2000pounder 2011-10-16
Exactly. Some of the first responders. That was before i knew about our friends in N.C. i thought they were Special Forces when i saw them on the news, how wrong was I????
7 [deleted] 2011-10-16
Regime changes are never peaceful. So far...
1 TheNessman 2011-10-16
wow very good reminder
5 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
To blame this "wave of fascism" on a single entity in the form of a corporation, comprised of many minds, is both naive and absurd and doomed for failure at the onset of such a movement against it if this is the sole reason, sole mindset of the cause and, sadly, I fear that for most participating this is the case; if they even understand more than simply the act of injustice that is taking place on levels beyond that of the financial institution which had been created and persists today is but one form of control; you can be sure that another form will take its place as this one soon will crumble while the vast majority that those protesting, yes even you, are completely unaware of will remain wholly intact and their tentacles will remain imbedded deep into the very base impulses of the society of yesterday and today; tomorrow cannot come soon enough.
Be the change for tomorrow and do not give into the impulses of the old age.
13 FatDrunkBastard 2011-10-16
And the Reddit award for Longest Sentence goes to idunnorightorwrong!
2 [deleted] 2011-10-16
That's real talk. All he had to do was say "Hey guys, there are a lot of monopolies we can blame."
-1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
Forgive me, I seem to have offended you for not speaking on a level that is more suitable for some.
The fact of the matter is that this "wave of fascism", as I was alluding to, is not monopolized nor is it a "wave". To suggest that all the blame be placed upon them is the same as blaming one's bad breath on the sore taste bud on the very tip of the tongue for it is the one that causes you to take notice of the pain you feel/see yet the cause remains entirely elusive and completely irrelevant to why you have bad breath, when you feel pain.
For those who don't like using their brains more than absolutely necessary:
"Hey guys, Goldman-Sachs is a fucking pawn too."
6 [deleted] 2011-10-16
Obviously the originators of these kinds of plans operate on a level higher than just one or two entities; the simple joke was that you were somewhat ranting.
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
Obviously.
Yes, I do tend to do that. "Rant". On and on incessantly. There is much to consider and there is also much to be said. It is far easier to do with the anonymity of the interwebs. If I were speak these thoughts in front of others... well I could only imagine how soon I would meet my demise from someone unwilling to hear the truth.
Cheers!
3 Crooooow 2011-10-16
you would not meet your demise, you would sound like a crazy person.
Good luck!
3 Elestria 2011-10-16
you would not meet your demise, you would sound like a crashing bore.
Have a day!
1 notapirate 2011-10-16
How is Goldman-Sachs a pawn?
5 [deleted] 2011-10-16
America is too large and diverse for any kind of organized fascist movement to take over.
6 [deleted] 2011-10-16
America is already Fascist.
1 californiarepublik 2011-10-16
unless people dont recognize it for what it is...oops too late
4 Calibas 2011-10-16
Soon? You're describing the world we already live in, one which I'm happy to say appears to be moving more and more towards non-violent resolutions to problems.
-4 [deleted] 2011-10-16
[deleted]
1 Calibas 2011-10-16
If you're equating violence with maturity you're confused.
4 [deleted] 2011-10-16
Loads of people believe that The Collapse or whatever you want to call it is right around the corner. Every. Single. Day.
Any even slightly turbulent time for the government, military, economy, civil rights, religion, or anything else that has a large impact on people or the news will convince some group of people that we're on the brink.
Posing such a question to a group of people who spend their time talking about government conspiracies is nothing more than a circlejerk.
3 [deleted] 2011-10-16
No
0 kjmchone 2011-10-16
^ the only straightforward response here.
2 zombicidal 2011-10-16
I feel society is a bonsai tree, long overdue for some pruning.
2 vbullinger 2011-10-16
Depends on what you mean by "soon?" I think the idea of a flash point and everything coming to a head in one fell swoop is not going to happen. Because then they'd lose.
2 ddelrio 2011-10-16
Nothing outrageous will happen as long as they keep pumping out new episodes of America's Got Talent.
1 californiarepublik 2011-10-16
however many americans no longer even have a couch to be potatoes on
2 TheNessman 2011-10-16
I think it's going to build up and then everyone is just going to snap sometime in 2012
2 Absurd_Cam 2011-10-16
Violent anti-fascism? I'm sorry if that doesn't sound too bad to me. I'll be in the ranks.
2 gustoreddit51 2011-10-16
It will get ugly because the mainstream media is part of the propaganda machine and not the free press it is supposed to be. A free press doing its job would operate as a relief valve as it would be prosecuting in the court of public opinion the abuses of power - which in turn, in a correctly functioning free society, should vector towards real prosecutions.
When the press can no longer be trusted to accurately reflect the mood of the country or express its frustration , at some point things could tumble into violence when the tipping point is reached where their collusion cannot be tolerated and public trust has completely broken down. This will take much more than a mere majority because the control it exerts can be precisely measured and has become a science.
But I sense we're edging close to that point given the tone of the press. It used to address a broader socio-economic range. Since 9/11 its focus has become narrower and lower. Lately more and more people are saying they think the country has lost its mind. We haven't lost our mind, we lost our media. If it seems to a lot of people that what we see in the media speaks to increasingly less astute people, it's because it is. It needs to hold onto a large enough segment of the population to keep things from that tipping point and have enough people parroting the propaganda to aid in that goal. It's getting to the point where the only people that will buy the propaganda and keep the tide of public opinion from tipping are the people incapable of understanding what is really happening - hence the lower socio-economic targeting of its propaganda.
2 doc58 2011-10-16
And there are more of the lower, public fool system (un)educated than people able to think clearly and solve problems without demanding government intervention.
2 glacierfresh 2011-10-16
I DON'T KNOW WHO FUCKED ME, BUT SOMEBODY GONNA GET HURT RRREAAAL BAD!
What if people are getting set up to accept an even more brutal and fascistic system? If you're into the whole Hegelian Dialectical analysis, it's problem-reaction-solution in action. The unthinking mobs will be demanding "real" change, and you can bet these elites will have a system ready to replace the current one. It will be a system that is all unicorns and rainbows on the surface, but will end up being even more oppressive and unjust than what we have now.
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Yes, sadly that is what history has shown us. And, unfortunately, history repeats itself because those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
2 [deleted] 2011-10-16
[deleted]
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Why? The fact is there is MORE than enough room for all of us. In fact all 6+ billion of us could fit in Austrailia, each of us would have a quarter acre to live on, and there would be plenty of room in Austrailia left over. The rest of the world would be sans humans.
Take a plane ride and see how much uninhabited land there is all over the world. Yes, cities are overpopulated in many cases, but that has been done through social engineering by governments. We are easier to control and keep tabs upon when we are herded together.
Overpopulation is a myth that was first posited by Thomas Malthus. It is not true. There is also enough money and resources. Sadly, it is all in the hands of a few extremely wealthy families in the world, who came about their money by cheating the masses and continue to scam us through banking and laws.
1 MarkhovCheney 2011-10-16
Yes. The death throes of the Aeon of Osiris, if you ask me...
2 policharizard 2011-10-16
What is the aeon of osiris in reference to?
1 MarkhovCheney 2011-10-16
I have a sneaking suspicion the source of the term isn't very popular around these parts.
2 policharizard 2011-10-16
I am curious if you are referencing the egyptian idea of our present time as the end of a dark age of humanity.
1 ebonhand1 2011-10-16
Funny, for the last several years I've been having this feeling that the dark ages hadn't ever ended and that a new golden age was upon us. With all the protesting and people standing up for their rights things are beginning to look like positive change is on the horizon for the first time.
1 policharizard 2011-10-16
I do hope so. I'm not an expert or anything but many cultures believe that 2012 is the end of a dark age and the beginning of a long assent into a new golden age of humanity. I have a glimmer of optimism, hoping that our human condition will improve. Only a little more downturn left.
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
Is curious as well.
1 MarkhovCheney 2011-10-16
93
1 scurvebeard 2011-10-16
The human brain is designed to be overly sensitive to threats, to consider as many violent outcomes as possible. In an environment where bad things often do happen, it was better for our ancestors to be over-prepared than under-. And so we are a little bit sensitive, a little bit concerned, a little bit fearful when we generally needn't be.
Your brain is just perceiving a potential threat and making it important. If it doesn't happen, well, you wasted a few bucks on shotguns and bottled water. If it does, you're more likely to survive if you have acted on your concerns.
Evolution is pretty groovy but it definitely can make people think there are things out there which generally aren't likely to be.
1 bowling4meth 2011-10-16
I can see rising nationalism through job protectionism and that is dangerous. The collapse of the Euro would probably lead to a major European war. Russia would make a play for the former Soviet countries and Poland to contain a European collapse, and Germany would probably end up at war with nearly every European country it's lent any money to, as those countries try to reassert their independence after Germany's spent billions bailing them out.
1 sun_dagger 2011-10-16
I think a few eggs have to be broken to make a cake.
But extreme wave? No, that'd never happen.
1 [deleted] 2011-10-16
I have spent plenty of time contemplating a SHTF scenario. I started preparing for it in fact. Food...sure. No debt.....always a good idea. Seeds...good idea. Water.....need that. Well insulated home....can't miss there. But if we find ourselves in a 'The Road' or 'The Postman' type of environment, I don't think that I need to see more than a couple years of that. There is no end to preparation. One could easily spend ALL of their time and money only to find that things somehow normalize in a few years.
0 xRyNo 2011-10-16
A testament to the paranoid cluster-fuck that is /r/conspiracy.
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Better to have and not need than to need and not have. You can be certain the elites have plenty of supplies and contingency plans.
1 xRyNo 2011-10-16
I don't deny that. This is just a ridiculous post by the OP. Providing no follow up information. He's broadcasting a hunch, and everyone's upvoting without giving it a second thought. Nobody will ever take /r/conspiracy seriously because of shit like this.
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Everyone is upvoting because they feel the decline in civil liberties and the decline of our society. Drive around the inner city and see what a third world city looks like. Nothing but bars, liquor stores, check cashing places, fast food restaurants, pawn shops, boarded up buildings and businesses surrounded by iron gates on the windows and doors.
1 xRyNo 2011-10-16
And what exactly does that have to do with fascism?
1 doc58 2011-10-16
From dictionary.com: fas·cism [fash-iz-uhm] noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
That should answer your question.
1 xRyNo 2011-10-16
Actually it did. I had a misunderstanding.
1 doc58 2011-10-16
Thanks for admitting it. I had a feeling clarification was needed.
1 xRyNo 2011-10-16
Thank you for not being a dick about it. Sometimes I browse Reddit a little too baked and make stupid mistakes. ahaha
-5 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
If I didn't know better, I'd say there was going to be a second holocaust.
Look around r/conspiracy, if you want to know how people feel. Jews are evil, Jews run the world, Jews did WTC...blood will run. Sixty five years later, the antisemites have managed to convince themselves that the holocaust either didn't happen, or was perpetrated by Jews on themselves, so they had it coming, neither viewpoint being supported by evidence; the amount of absolute, vitriolic hate aimed at the Jewish people because of the actions of the government of the nation of Israel and a few corrupt bankers is absurd. When one Jew commits a crime, Americans treat it as if all Jews have committed that crime. This subreddit is full of people like that - tttt0tttt, UndergroundRecorder, Occidentalist, MartinTimothy, me_and_1, to name a few - who present the same antisemitic viewpoints without any unbiased evidence.
Don't let this happen. Don't be a part of this. If you want to rebel, there are perfectly valid targets, but the entire Jewish population isn't one of them.
6 [deleted] 2011-10-16
I think you're confusing anti-Israel with anti-semitic. I don't care what branch of humanity you descended from, but Israel is an evil empire.
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
I'm really not, and that's the entire problem. The vast majority of people I see on here who speak about zionism etc. also refer to Jews as a race, rather than just Israel. If everyone were talking about how bad Israel is, I wouldn't be debating them; Israel is no friend of mine.
But it's not them, it's the Jews. It's always about how the Jews control Wall Street, not some Jews, or even the Zionists. The flavor of what I've seen isn't just anti-Zionist; if it were, I wouldn't have such an issue. It is anti-semitic.
I've been assured multiple times that this is just a very vocal minority, but I can only speak to what I've seen.
Israel is far from an "empire", what with being the size of New Jersey, and being a democracy - albeit one controlled by idiot fundamentalists - but still, your point isn't that far off. They've done terrible things...and it should be pretty telling that the word I'm debating is "empire", not "evil".
But it isn't even Israel, it's the government. We ask people to distinguish between the American people and the American government; why do the anti-Israel people not follow this standard?
1 [deleted] 2011-10-16
Valid points.
Although I would still class Israel as an empire due to the amount of influence on world politics they have.
5 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
Revelation 2:9
6 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
I don't understand your point.
In any case, no one should ever use the Bible as "evidence" for anything.
3 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
How about Fordham university?
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/khazars1.asp
-1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Can you get to your point? You haven't actually said anything yet.
It sounds as if you agree, that Jews aren't responsible for everything?
In any case, the religion of Judaism is just as wrong and backwards as Christianity or Islam; it's just that the majority of American Jews are "reform", which can be read as either "closet atheist" or "I go to synagogue on Yom Kippur!"
2 9000sins 2011-10-16
All racism aside, your point of view is valid but you jumped off at a certain point when you generalized all americans as anti-Semites. The climate here is pretty damn pro-Israel and pro Judaism. There is a lot more anger directed at blacks and Latinos for no good reason.
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
This was not my intent; that's why the post says "if I didn't know any better". I know all Americans are not antisemites. But there is an air here - on r/conspiracy - of antisemitism. My only goal was to get these people to take a long look in the mirror. Apparently it won't work, since anyone who this post is directed towards only sees ZIONIST JEWS regardless of where they look.
To everyone else, no, I don't think America is antisemitic.
2 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
No one is hating on the descendents of the people who were the Hebrews. if any one is being hated on it is liars and thieves getting hated on.
The sad thing is, these liars and thieves are just toys for something much bigger.
http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm
By the way: When Germany occupied 1/2 of Poland many "Jews" went east. The allies (Russia with help) killed 1/2 of all Jews that were killed during WWII. (In eastern Poland and Russia).
Estimated Jewish Deaths - WWII
Also: ancient Israel divided into "Judah" and "Sumariea", The "Jews" went to war with Sumarea. A "Jew" is by it's very definition "antisemitic".
If you call your dog a horse, and I hate your dog for biting me, you would say "He hates all horses"!
You funny!
-2 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
When someone says "Jews are evil", they aren't saying "LIARS AND THIEVES", they're saying Jews. All Jews, everywhere. You can claim no one is hating on these people, but you're just plain wrong.
4 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
Moammar Gadhafi and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are both jews
-2 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Hilarious.
You're so cute!
3 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
Gaddafi is entitled to immigrate to Israel as a Jew under Israel’s Law of Return. Even if every other country on earth refused him entry, Israel would be obligated by its own laws to take Gaddafi in.
You're right! "Hilarious"! (You can't make this stuff up!)
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Interesting. I never knew that.
Not that it matters; he'd never seek refuge in Israel, and if he did, he'd be immediately arrested. You know, for war crimes? It's not like Israel doesn't have laws, or that Jews are exempt from them.
In any case, Gaddafi is a Muslim. He has Jewish ancestry, and this highlights the problems with the Law of Return.
Thanks for the interesting tidbit, but as I said, I'm done with r/conspiracy; this includes you. Have a nice life!
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
All I see from you in your history, the small amount I care to poke through, is you the one being the racist.
You should be defending so many others from the onslaught of one.
You are defending a single race from the onslaught of so many others.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
-1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
What a fucking disgusting false dichotomy.
This post is nothing but an attempt to call me a racist by setting up a "Jews vs. the world" scenario, as if all races and people are united in harmony against the Jewish menace, and as if by refuting and fighting antisemitism, I am oppressing other peoples.
This is a moronic opinion, and I have no further reason to talk to you if you actually believe this.
I am against racism in all its forms, and I believe that as long as you continue to see the world only in terms of "races" which, despite being made up of completely unrelated individuals, are engaging in wars and alliances with each other. This is why your worldview is idiotic and wrong.
Stop describing Earth in terms of race vs. race. Start looking at individuals.
Right back at you. You twist my words to pretend I'm a racist, but you're the one trying to pit Jews against the rest of the world, as if there's this stark divide, whereby Jews aren't human, and all other races are. You're disgusting, and I have nothing else to say to you.
The last word is yours.
3 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
Are you familiar with the Talmud? I am thinking you are not. If you are then you are disguising yourself quite poorly. That is the exact teachings behind such a faith.
I wholeheartedly agree. However, not everyone sees it as such. Clearly. As I am attempting to point out to you.
Namaste.
2 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
... and are mistaken to think that Jews are in fact of Judea - a land that never even existed.
That is mvlazysusan's point. Are you unfamiliar with Khazaria? There is more than enough information in this sub to bring you up to speed.
"ZIONIST JEWS" are in that category. If not by blood, by indoctrination. Just because one has a differing view or stance does not exclude them from being a Jew, merely a Zionist. If there are any true Isrealite left I would be surprised.
Also, what is an "American Jew"? There is no such thing. A Jew is a Jew. Do not be confused by what you hear or see and in turn are lead to justify into believing.
1 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
-2 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
Thank you, and goodnight.
3 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
You're welcome, but you're still confused. A rose by any other name... If the glove fits...
What is wrong with calling a Jew a Jew? A Jew knows they are a Jew. A Christian knows they are Christian. Muslim a Muslim. Hindu a Hindu. Caught up on a name; ignore the cause and can't even accept the effects.
1 [deleted] 2011-10-16
If I may say so, don't give up on r/conspiracy just yet.
Of the 40,000 subscribers the anti-semite/zionist crowd are a very vocal minority.
When you extrapolate to the population of the US they are a much much smaller minority. And judging by the things they say, they have neither the brains or the power to impact society anyway.
Needless to say, they are more of a treat to themselves than to anyone else. Pay them no mind.
-1 ninjaholiday 2011-10-16
Graped, it's best no to argue with crazy people
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
You're in r/conspiracy... you're fucking "crazy" too. No? Just a shill?
Must be denial then; on account of the lack of willpower to understand and understanding to know. You'll get it someday.
1 ninjaholiday 2011-10-16
Don't mock me my friend. It's a condition of mental divergence. I find myself on the planet Ogo, part of an intellectual elite, preparing to subjugate the barbarian hordes on Pluto. But even though this is a totally convincing reality for me in every way, nevertheless Ogo is actually a construct of my psyche. I am mentally divergent, in that I am escaping certain unnamed realities that plague my life here. When I stop going there, I will be well. Are you also divergent, friend?
2 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
Give the barbarians my best. Good luck in your efforts.
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
...yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm done with this subreddit. There are too many crazy antisemites. Sorry to the rest of you.
1 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
Promise?
0 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
I don't owe you any oaths.
0 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
Would you mind helping me save the lives of a few million people living in Israel?
If you read that link http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm you'll see that they are intended to be killed. I'd like to stop that from happening if I am able.
2 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
I'll give it a read, but so far, it looks like more unsubstantiated New World Order crap.
If I think there's anything to it, I'll send you a message.
Edit: For fucks sake, it links to David Icke. The guy who believes lizards rule the Earth.
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
More digging, you must do. More acceptance, you must have, for that which does not change, will.
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
This and This are why you believe what you believe.
1 idunnorightorwrong 2011-10-16
The problem with This is that there is plenty of evidence to back up what you think I believe. Unless all of human history is also a figment of only my imagination.
And the problem with This is that there is, again, plenty of evidence to back up what you think I believe.
Information is truth. It holds no bias. And I, like information, seeks only itself for the confirmation - the truth - and hold no bias "regurgitating" selected information, but that is merely on a case by case - individual to individual - manner meant only for that individual. It's not on me to tell you the truth, it's for you to decide what that truth is.
1 bobaf 2011-10-16
LizArdmen are acceptable?
3 bumblingmumbling 2011-10-16
It is pretty incredible that this was written. The white Ashkenazi Jews of today came from Khazaria and converted to Judaism and began to follow the Talmud. So this whole "Right of Return" to Israel by white Russian converts to Talmudic Judaism in the early Middle Ages is quite debatable.
1 mvlazysusan 2011-10-16
They were/are pagans, the "Talmud" and the "Babylonian Talmud" yield the exact same results in a Google search and are absolutely interchangeable. The origins of the Ashkenazi is central Asia. During the Diaspora the worst offender were made to move across the continent the least offensive only across the street, thus when the king of the Khazars searched for people to teach his nation a new religion he came across those from Judea first. Please note how he is corrected by the Christian priest in the second sentence in this quote:
Here is a nice read:
1 ninjaholiday 2011-10-16
The antisemitism on r/conspiracy is really frightening
0 vbullinger 2011-10-16
Maybe they should get their own subreddit. Suggestions for a title?
3 ninjaholiday 2011-10-16
r/ConspiracyRacist
1 Graped_in_the_mouth 2011-10-16
This and This are why you believe what you believe.
2 policharizard 2011-10-16
What is the aeon of osiris in reference to?
16 ikilledyourcat 2011-10-16
i love how all these reforms are demanded and what is the govt reaction? WAR WITH IRAN
1 Crooooow 2011-10-16
You have not answered the question.
1 Calibas 2011-10-16
If you're equating violence with maturity you're confused.
2 jadm2000pounder 2011-10-16
Exactly. Some of the first responders. That was before i knew about our friends in N.C. i thought they were Special Forces when i saw them on the news, how wrong was I????
1 bobaf 2011-10-16
LizArdmen are acceptable?
1 xRyNo 2011-10-16
Actually it did. I had a misunderstanding.