we just like to talk about what the masses don't seem to realize. we are the frogs that are telling the other frogs that the water is getting a bit too hot.

I really like your analogy.

That frog thing is an urban legend. You might want to stop alluding to it.

look it up.

still an analogy that is part of most cultures.

sounds like you understand it just fine

He's a tool that understands he has "masters". I understand that I am my own master, and death by fire is many times preferable to living under the control, will, or opinion of another. Freedom or death, death isn't scary, bondage is scary.

The problem is that we do, in fact, have rights. We have UNALIENABLE rights. Congress shall make no law...etc, etc. We have rights that are non-negotiable. The fact that entities believe they are able to manipulate, remove, or otherwise hold these rights under condition of behavior, is a sad testament to the disgusting creatures inhabiting our government.

If you would like to continue living your life, as if you and your children have some sort of acceptable future, that is just fine, but you don't.

You only have inalienable rights if you believe in God. Otherwise, where does the authority for those rights come from? Other human beings? Why should their view prevail? Rights are God-given, or rights do not exist.

I respectfully disagree ... I don't think there are inalienable rights, since rights are a human idea.

The only rights you have are the rights you take.

That's a nifty notion, and it's wonderful to have opinions. However, there is this thing; this piece of shit paper we call The Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

As a black man, Obama might not want to fuck with that little bit of our national architecture.

Yet those "unalienable rights" is that they didn't even extend to black men in 1776. Without struggle, they still wouldn't have those rights. Their creator didn't hand out any rights, they stood up and claimed them, and continue to protect them today.

The fact that you quoted the Declaration of Independence supports what rontonimobay is saying.

If rights were truly inalienable, then nobody would be able to take them from you.

The idea of 'rights' is purely a human construct and they can be taken or given at will.

That argument was expected, hence the "endowed by their Creator" part. They made sure not to say God. Just by being alive you are granted these rights. Any entity which attempts to take them from us is an enemy to our nation and should be treated as such.

Your 'rights' only extend as far as others allow them to go.

What happens to one's right to life when another decides to kill her? It doesn't seem very inalienable now does it? The words in the Declaration are just describing an ideal, not absolute truth. If someone decides you don't have a right to life or whatever other 'inalienable rights' humans have, then you don't have it.

Do you live in the United States? Because if you don't you have no idea what you are talking about, and if you do, you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you familiar with the Bill of Rights? If the framework of our laws no longer matters, then none of our laws matter. The people that make them are illegitimate, they have no authority and we should no longer pay their salaries or pay attention to any of the other stupid words they put to paper.

I think you're missing his point. He's saying laws are simply social constructs, that vanish the second someone bigger and stronger than you decides they do.

There no magical hand that turns back time when someone decides to rape and murder your family, regardless of their right not to have that done to them.

The Bill of Rights only has power because Americans agree that it does. It is only words on paper, Americans just agree to live by it. And when a majority of people agree that we should not live by it, we amend it or the people who write do become illegitimate and lose the authority we gave them. The government only exists through the consent of its people.

I think it is illegal/impossible to change the declaration of independence, so those rights will always be there, you have laws to guard them.

What I am trying to say is that, not matter what is says on the Bill Of Rights or the Declaration, those rights are only rights because we all agree (generally) that we should have those rights and live by them. This also applies to the laws that protect those rights. If, one day, the majority (or the powerful minority) of people decide that those are not the rights we should live by, then they change them peacefully (nulling those original rights) or violently.

I get what you're trying to say, but it's bullshit.

No, it isn't. Do you really think, that when push comes to shove, the government won't arrest you, detain you forever, torture you, or kill you because some magical symbols on a 300 year old piece of paper says not to? The government could care less what is says on the Declaration or Constitution. To believe otherwise is to be ignorant.

The moment a government does that, it isn't a government anymore it is a dictatorship, I know the american people nor the european will never accept another dictatorship, so what your trying to say is really black and white thinking, it is far more complicated then that. (You americans already live in a dictatorship, you only get to elect your new dictator every 4 years, Tea Party/OWS show people have had enough.

I don't understand how the tea party/ows is trying to change it by voting for Ron Paul (or really anyone). Our dictatorship (which is a form of government) is designed against a small group that wants change. One person alone cannot change the system. OWS/tea party aren't the only ones who see the problem, they are the ones who believe they can change it.

Every revolution started with a small group of people bro, Lenin? Hitler? French?

"So why is everyone so shocked and appalled when they bare their fangs a little more?"

No you dont understand as ChickaloonCharlie suggests;

We are not shocked that they bare their fangs; we are shocked that so few people see "They will kill you without permission, they will detain you without permission, they will fuck with the DNA of our food without your permission"

Also, there is much we are not in agreement with. Many people focus on things that are distractions.

Conspiracy has been used for years to not only distract - but to also build a credible deniability to those who are "conspiracy theorists" -- but now, now the conspiracies are WAY too plain to see - and the credible deniability is used against those that are truly the ones who have been pointing this shit out, such that there is a much lower % of people that have really been paying attention to what is real as compared to those that have been distracted by bullshit.

The best trick the devil ever played, was convincing you he didn't exist.

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Personally, the fact of the matter is a rich powerful group run the planet.

A minority of average people realize this.

This minority would wish to educate others on the reality.

But the others have been conditioned to not accept this reality.

This puts the minority in a tough spot.

Therefore I would say the minority resorts to the next best thing, trying to see the next move.

This is what I do. I am waiting for the next move. I wait for a large move.

I feel they will have to make more aggressive moves as time moves on, due to technology and the increasing general understanding of society amongst the public.

I wait for this time.

When the time arises. I will speak my mind loud, with absolute reason, citing past well know events to convince my fellow human family we have been played.

It will be the moment of truth. If this moment fails, then I cannot see myself living for long past that time.

The time is now.

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when you buy into their model of things (the master-slave dynamic) it's almost like giving consent.

Nicely put.

Everyone here is in agreement...

Conspiracy is about the people/organizations that hide from the public. The "movers and shakers and moguls" don't just represent the government, or the government in it's entirety.

Bringing conspiracy to light for discussion, burns it into peoples minds. Every day, smart people form opinions on what they will do about what they read. This board, comprised of freaks, geeks, and sneaks, preforms a service that isn't always apparent to the creators. Reaction to this information, spreads itself over a much longer period than we're aware of, while creating it, or want change to happen in.

Because... let's face it. We don't have rights. We have permissions that our Masters allow.>

bingo.

Who gets shocked?

I really don't see that much surprise. There are people here who don't want to believe each new development, but I don't see many who are surprised.

Everyone here is in agreement that "They" who are the movers and shakers and moguls of the world don't give a damn about us and would gladly kill everyone for a little extra breathing room. "They" suck, right?

My own vision of Them is a bit more in a gray area than that. I believe that some of Them are doing what they do because they are convinced that it is the best thing for the world, and therefore They don't see themselves as "evil". (Although probably they recognize that they are Machiavelians, as in "the end justify the means".) Now, for us poor mortals, that brings little solace. Let's just remember the saying "Hell is littered with good intentions"...

We can't do anything about it. Yet.

Idk about you guys, but when shit hits the fan, I'll be ready for a fight

'the microchip in your arm will stop you.

He's a tool that understands he has "masters". I understand that I am my own master, and death by fire is many times preferable to living under the control, will, or opinion of another. Freedom or death, death isn't scary, bondage is scary.

Every revolution started with a small group of people bro, Lenin? Hitler? French?