The ability to communicate freely seems very important to me and so SOPA and such issues must be incredibly important and will need constant attention to stave of erosion of the usefulness and power of the internet.

It is natural for skeptical minds to presume that sopa was/is a red herring and easy to presume that those in the know do not care about sopa really. I guess that is kind of pessimistic considering the actions of activists and companies to stop it, to think that it never was important and i hear around these parts from time to time that the elite want everyone to feel powerless , despondent or jaded with the political process, in which case this should be seen as a victory and attention should be paid to these issues still.

agreed. it just seems like so much of politics these days follow this type of pattern. they show show you 2 big issues at the same time so there if there is a big push back it usually focuses on one of the 2.

I believe it was part of a Door In The Face type of setup to try to get PIPA to pass. I dont feel that they need 'distractions' from things like this because the mainstream media can just choose not to cover it or give it any attention, as they did. If it was a distraction from NDAA, wouldnt they have wanted to cover it more in the mainstream media?

very true. thanks for the perspective. =)

[deleted]

thanks!

Thought I would just put THIS here for everyone.

TIL Door in the Face. Thx.

No problem. Pretty much the opposite of 'foot in the door'. If any of you guys ever take an intro psychology or sociology class they will probably mention it or go over it a little bit.

it is only being shelved to keep people from protesting it. as soon as the 18th comes and goes it will be back

any links?

only conjecture, but it isn't like it something that hasn't happened before.

Agreed, conjecture is a frequent visitor here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/olcwh/its_baaaaaaaaack_lamar_smith_says_sopa_markup_to/

here is that proof you were probably wanting from me earlier. sometimes i get these things right. sometimes i do not.

PIPA.

No. This is a larger program being shotgunned at us.

Whatever sticks will be good for them. The idea is that you can only be aware of so much. And so you can only dodge so much. Since we'll all obey the laws and the legal system it doesn't really matter until we take a stand on our own and declare our own inherent right to be a godamn human being.

All of this is set-dressing.

So long as we continue to participate in their bullshit rules (that they don't obey) they win. If you want to really screw the self-appointed rulers you stop using their money. Stop paying their taxes (these are not your taxes unless you claim them as yours). Starve the beast.

They only have as much power as we decide.

Out of curiosity, how do you just stop paying taxes without them fining you or throwing you in jail?

This is a very good question. It took me a long time to stumble on a reasonable answer. Which ended up being blindingly obvious.

So long as people believe in taxes the tax codes will be enforced. When people stop believing in the tax code the tax code will no longer be enforced. For the moment if one were to stop paying taxes they'd be seen as batshit crazy (I get this a lot). However, in time, as people see how their funds are used, the people will - hopefully - decide that they do not wish to fund war and corruption. At which time the question of taxation itself comes under scrutiny. Do note that direct unapportioned taxation was so villainous that it is prohibited not once, but twice in the constitution. This is because a direct unapportioned tax is literally economic serfdom. If those taxes were used for the benefit of the people I could see it, but the majority of those taxes go to the Federal Reserve which is privately owned or to we-don't-know-where (?).

For now we life in economic serfdom and most people believe the propaganda that says otherwise. We need to educate ourselves and really think about where we are and what we're participating in. I believe that direct apportioned taxation would be fine. But that's not what's going on. I think this is villainous and the constitution agrees with me.

Non-participation is the best way. I'm saying this on MLK Day.

Very good answer. Free thinkers are dangerous.

if you don't receive money then you don't owe any tax. Bartering for goods ans services along with things like bitcoin bypasses the monetary system. It's difficult because you alienate yourself from society, but find a big enough circle of like minded people then it's very possible.

with the internet though, each person can both be aware of and help make others aware of more. the internet can be the best of both the independent research and spoon-fed entertainment media worlds. You have personal access to almost any piece of information you are willing to look and/or pay for, but you can also have the internet fed to you in a filtered way that ensures you are more well informed on specific topics (politics/legislation) than you could ever possibly be if left to your own devices. and in infinitely more timely a fashion than was ever remotely possible pre-internet. they tried to control this, and people pushed back hard.

I agree that knowledge is power.

Live your life as you see fit.

The worst they can do is kill you. Which is unlikely.

I think strange days are ahead.

We live in an exciting time.

I couldn't agree more. And of course the NDAA isn't just about free speech. It is also about the ability of the government to just imprison us indefinitely with out needing to be judged by our peers and even revoke our citizenship. See this article for a summary.

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/10512-bill-would-strip-citizenship-from-any-engaging-in-hostilities-against-us

Also.. regarding SOPA, PIPA and such... Adam Curry on Sunday's No Agenda podcast discovered some interesting information that this SOPA also distracted from. I strongly advise listening to it. It is towards the beginning of the show. The gist of it in regards to this new gTLD program. See here for more info: http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/10512-bill-would-strip-citizenship-from-any-engaging-in-hostilities-against-us

Another bit that is not mentioned in this article is that the program comes with a requirement for hosts to verify the identity of domain name owners. Yet another strike at our online free speech.

I don't think they needed to intentionally distract us from NDAA any more than they needed to for the patriot act and the homegrown terrorism bill.

SOPA was to distract from PIPA. They're almost word for word the same. The Senate will pass PIPA and Congress will rubberstamp it.

No..there's a lot of money deeply worried about protecting their IP, right or wrong.

They're just rewriting it...they'll use flowery text to make it seem less abhorrent but it'll be the same shit...either that or they'll bury it in pork with some other package of bills.

SOPA and PIPA are re-writes off legislation introduced in 1996 (Senate Bill 1284) and no surprise Leahy and Hatch were the two that first submitted it back in 1996 after the "White Paper" was released from a Clinton Administration appointed group concerning copyright and the internet..

So in a sense this is the 2nd time they have tried to pass SOPA/PIPA in the last 16 years...

No. They want to fuck us in every way possible. NDAA and SOPA are two ways, they want to include them all. It wasn't a distraction.

There are some bills that will pass whether they have the consent of the american people or not. NDAA is one of those. It was simply a response to the OWS protests to put the final nail in the coffin now that the people have started to actually try and exercise their democratic rights.

No. I believe they hold the public in so little regard that they have no problem trying to shove two terrible bills down our throats at the same time. SOPA will be back. It may have a different name, but corporations are relentless and our politicians are bought and paid for.

they hold the public in so little regard

You ain't lying. After 9/11 and the entire continuing War on Terror™ saga, I am amazed at what's pushed as truth.

what the fuck. no matter what happens, some guy on here is going to think it was a planned conspiracy

Well you seem really confident that it is not. Confident enough to come here and post this comment belittling anyone who thinks this could be possible. You also seem to express contempt for conspiracy theories in general. Bravo. You get the I'm-better-than-you badge today.

That's not my point. My point is that there are no facts anywhere, and that one can speculate about everything that ever happens. I just wonder what you guys plan to do about these idle speculations.

What do you mean "what are we going to do about it"? This is just speculation, yes. Any person can see that. My point is to open minds. Wether you like it or not I will continue to exercise my mind and think about possibilities for a long time. I'm sorry if this offends you, but this is a battle for hearts and minds. I would like to think I am winning more minds every day. Once you see the power structure that is in place you will understand why we distrust it. It is infected. If you are asking if we are planning a march or on hacking something, sorry. We just talk about stuff here.

i don't have a problem with what you do. it's just that this subreddit just calls every single thing out as a conspiracy. if you do that, you start to lose credibility and just seem like crazies. at least try to make a case for something instead of just making wild accusations.

I never made any. You are the one that is jumping to conclusions. I am comfortable playing with ideas such as this. I'm sorry if a little speculation offends you. Good thing free speech is protected in the constitution, right? I don't care if people think I'm crazy. That is what makes me so much fun! =)

I'm not offended. But if you truly believe that "playing with ideas" is a legitimate pursuit regardless of what basis these ideas have in anything, then you should expect and welcome discussion and pushback towards your ideas.

They wanted both, but didn't think SOPA would effect business so much until it was pointed out. NDAA doesn't negatively effect corporations, the only "people" who really matter to the government, so there was no objection (from anyone who matters) to it passing.

maybe? I'm more inclined to think it's just a coincidence. A evil one.

I am sort of surprised that there wasn't more of a interest in the end of Posse Comitatus with NDAA2012.

We need the internet to wake up the Military and police, if they see videos of their fellows Americans being killed by police and Military under NDAA it might wake them up and hopefully they will stand down, that's how the Berlin wall fell. i think not passing Sopa was a major fail for the NWO.

It's a standard PR and spin doctors to offer up one thing while doing something else. And ad men, PR guys, and Spin Doctors are basically practicing legerdemain.

I could see it being a little deflection of interests

SOPA and PIPA are re-writes off legislation introduced in 1996 (Senate Bill 1284) and no surprise Leahy and Hatch were the two that first submitted it back in 1996 after the "White Paper" was released from a Clinton Administration appointed group concerning copyright and the internet..

So in a sense this is the 2nd time they have tried to pass SOPA/PIPA in the last 16 years...

I had the cheek to present the same opinion over in the SOPA subreddit last week. Didn't go down too well there, heh. Kindof rained on their victory parade a little bit. At least one guy understood what I was saying.

the hivemind is strong.

No, but I'm sure everyone else here will claim it was.

the hivemind is strong.