You, sir, are a true patriot.

Cannot upvote this enough.

Dammit I wish more of our soldiers were as willing and able to see what is going on as you, sir.

Yeah. We need a lot more Joe six-packs to start realizing that something just feels wrong.

Yep.

Any other buddies you have in the ranks that you talk with about things like this?

If only there could be some way to break the ice so to speak, so as to finally let the cat out of the bag and out into the open so that certain people in the ranks could talk about it.

This.

You stated what I did - only much better.

And who the fuck would downvote what you said? Man . . . just plain stupid.

Good point, but I think it's one of the more prevalent faces.

It should be fought against, resisted, and, ultimately, defeated - not because the U.S. should be the one on top - heck, the U.S. needs a major revamping and revolutionizing as well - but because the power change that is being attempted will NOT be for the better.

"Maybe a stupid question...but I personally think it's a better one. When can all the troops just come home? Are they really doing anything to "save lives"?

That is by no means a stupid question. That is a great one. However, it seems an even deeper, more pertinent question has to do with making sure and preventing the cycle of war from continuously repeating itself as it does. What is the use of bringing the troops back to the U.S. if they're going to go right back out again and repeat the same cycle?

have the last 10 years worth of war been a complete waste?

They absolutely have been if you measure the result next to what the public is TOLD the purpose of the military is supposed to be. We're told the purpose of the military is to defend ourselves - not instigate, attack, and take over other countries, which is exactly what we've done throughout our history.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

That might seem to be a cause worth the effort then if that alone is the result.

Hmmm. I might try that.

Asking the question on r/military, that is - not getting banned (although that might happen anyway).

Will go there shortly then. Thanks.

Damn, mother. Read my "EDIT" up there in my OP. lol

Conspiracy crusade? Dude, seriously. Don't be such a sheep. Understand that the very word "conspiracy" is a joke. The b.s. reasons the U.S. has cited for going to war are NOT a conspiracy. It's called truth. Here. Let's try this:

• 1898 Spanish American War The USS Main - a US ship anchored near Cuba - was sunk and blamed by the US on the Spanish, who denied it. US went to war w/Spain in order to control the Carribean area. A century later, America acknowledged that the Spanish never sunk the USS Main.

• 1915 WWI The USS Lusitania was sunk by a German sub as a result of the US covertly leaking information to the Germans that the USS Lusitania was carrying war time weapons and was a threat to them. Wash and repeat the problem, reaction, solution cycle.

• 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor - the US instigated Japan for two years and did nothing when the US received information that Japan was finally going to attack in retaliation.

• 1965 Vietnam War Started because of the Gulf of Tonken incident: North Vietnamese boats were accused of attacking the US boat Maddox. Secretary of Defense Robert Macnamara later openly confessed that the attack on the Maddox itself actually NEVER took place. "Events afterward showed that our judgement that we had been attacked that day was wrong. It didn't happen."

• 1990 1st Gulf War US secretly tells Sadaam that they have no problem with him attacking Kuwait. Sadaam (Iraq) therefore invades Kuwait. US (Dick Chaney) tells Saudi Arabia (Kuwait) that 200,000 Iraqi soldiers are amassing behind their border. Saudi Arabia, in fear, grants the US permission to establish military bases in Kuwait to defend them against attack. America covertly sells Saadam chemical weapons and allows him to use them against his own people. His atrocities get shown in the US news, the public buys it, and now allows US to go to war w/Iraq. Later American intel reveals that there were, in fact, no Iraqi troops at the Kuwaiti border.

Conspiracy crusades right? Seriously man. Educate yourself, brother. You're only doing yourself and your country a major disservice.

He was just making a point about the rules of r/military

Really? You think so? You really think so? You think that stating "you guys are on your conspiracy crusade..." and "Maybe I'm a secret govt agent paid to moderate a subreddit and lock all of the Ron Paul fanclub out, now wouldn't that be some shit .... " is, as you put it, "just making a point about the rules of r/military"

Really? Is that what you think that was?

Wow. Hmmm. Maybe we weren't looking at the same thing then.

Relax guy.

I'm relaxed. Nothing you or he/she has said is sufficient to get me up and about. If you say something stupid, I just respond to it. Simple as that.

I don't see what's so complicated about the rules of r/military to cause you to react so much.

Then your reading and interpreting skills need to get a serious revamp.

It's for discussion on military not political issues, why is that so hard to understand?

Because you don't understand that they're often so one and the same as to be indistinguishable.

Why is he being downvoted for saying what the rules are?

Because he's not only doing that.

As did no1113, I guess.

Well, apparently R. Paul supporters in the military are an extremely small percentage because the U.S. presumably has a strong enough military force to go to war in the middle east right now.

Sorry. Excuse my ignorance please, but what is /s/?

So you're wondering if my initial response to t0t here was sarcasm?

It wasn't.

First of all, Ron Paul seems to be the best of the lot . . . but the lot is absolutely putrid to its core, so it says pretty much nothing that RP is the best of it. The system that he's working in is putrid and will continue to putrefy the country around it regardless of whether RP is president or not.

Secondly, it would not seem that those in the military who support RP are sufficient to make any significant anti war change. I support anyone who is against war, but I think that the point t0t makes is an unfortunate drop in the bucket.

Very well. Apologies for the confusion.

It would seem "The U.S. War Machine" would make sure of that.

Either that, or they would simply kill him.

I support and have marched with OWS.

This, of course, is not enough, and am not unwilling to do more.

Or Willie Nelson.

Or James Brown.

Absolutely. I cannot disagree, unfortunately.

I'm aware of just how contrived so much in this country is, however, and I am willing to stand up and fight against those moneyed powers that have gotten control and taken over this land.

Aside from marching with and supporting OWS, and simply speaking my mind and spreading information about what I happen to know about the b.s. that's going on in this country, I wonder about the very question you asked as well.

you've got stiff competition.

And then some.

Unless you can collectively divert attention or captivate as well as the raging media machine, you are fighting a tough battle.

Agreed, but what else would one in my shoes do with the information I have? Give up and do nothing? Na.

They're running a huge campaign of public mindfuck, backed by many a dollar, yours and mine both.

Yep. All I can do is make an honest effort and, if they attempt to make a public example out of me, simply stick to my guns, and keep it simple. Best case scenario is that I'd walk as an example for others to follow.

Yes. You have the power as far as your being representative of all those other individuals like you goes.

If you were to become aware that the reasons the U.S. is citing for going to war with another country are either manipulated or simply false, and those other people aren't as interested in fighting as you're told, would you still be willing to go and kill them?

Let's suppose your answer is "No. I wouldn't be willing to kill people who don't want to go to war with us." Now, just for the sake of argument, lets also suppose that all your other E-3 compatriots new the same information you did and felt the same way.

How effective would you think a war would be if you and those other E-3's banded together and agreed not to kill people in another country? agreed not to fight and go to war with a people not interested in war? if those few manipulators at the top of the 1% didn't have you guys doing the fighting for them?

I'm not sure that this country has ever had a war in the entirety of its history that wasn't fundamentally unlawful.

• 1898 Spanish American War The USS Main - a US ship anchored near Cuba - was sunk and blamed by the US on the Spanish, who denied it. US went to war w/Spain in order to control the Carribean area. A century later, America acknowledged that the Spanish never sunk the USS Main.

• 1915 WWI The USS Lusitania was sunk by a German sub as a result of the US covertly leaking information to the Germans that the USS Lusitania was carrying war time weapons and was a threat to them. Wash and repeat the problem, reaction, solution cycle.

• 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor - the US instigated Japan for two years and did nothing when the US received information that Japan was finally going to attack in retaliation.

• 1965 Vietnam War Started because of the Gulf of Tonken incident: North Vietnamese boats were accused of attacking the US boat Maddox. Secretary of Defense Robert Macnamara later openly confessed that the attack on the Maddox itself actually NEVER took place. "Events afterward showed that our judgement that we had been attacked that day was wrong. It didn't happen."

• 1990 1st Gulf War US secretly tells Sadaam that they have no problem with him attacking Kuwait. Sadaam (Iraq) therefore invades Kuwait. US (Dick Chaney) tells Saudi Arabia (Kuwait) that 200,000 Iraqi soldiers are amassing behind their border. Saudi Arabia, in fear, grants the US permission to establish military bases in Kuwait to defend them against attack. America covertly sells Saadam chemical weapons and allows him to use them against his own people. His atrocities get shown in the US news, the public buys it, and now allows US to go to war w/Iraq. Later American intel reveals that there were, in fact, no Iraqi troops at the Kuwaiti border.

I think the standards have at once gotten lowered and more sophisticated, however, since the lies the establishment tells its citizens in order to agree with the wars it wages seem to have gotten more and more clandestine in nature, no?

I mean look at the lie which is 911 after all.

Na. It just means he's going to have to man the fuck up a lot more than he thought he'd have to if he wants to get out. It's not the end of the world though - much as it might seem to him initially if he decided to try to get out. If he prepared himself adequately (psychologically and emotionally) and was very ready, it might be the best thing that could happen in his life.

With great power comes great responsibility.

I was just being an ass and assuming that he was already a pussy for joining the armed forces and taking orders in the first place.

Na. Joining the armed forces in and of itself doesn't necessarily happen because one is a pussy or a mindless drone. There are some who do go in with honorable intentions. Not all, but definitely some.

I have always said, and always will say, that if everyone refused to join the military we would be taking steps in the right direction towards peace.

I agree.

Obviously it's not exactly that simple, but in some ways it is.

This.

Even if those orders are unlawful?

Maybe he/she didn't know he was fighting for the corporate empire when he/she signed up.

Just giving the benefit of the doubt here is all.

I think a lot of people are still in the dark as to what's really going on in this planet and in this country.

Always remember that there was a time when you too were more in the dark than you are presently. Teach those that know less. Learn from those that know more.

Always be the light you wish others to follow. Always be the light you wish others themselves to be.

I aint cut out to be anybodies light.

You don't have to be. All you have to be is your OWN light. You'll illuminate everybody else around you by proxy when you simply concentrate and make sure and be the best light that you can be - not for others, but for yourself.

I wasn't made for mercy or guidance.

No one said you have to be.

Just be the best you you can be. Simple as that. Don't walk around trying to be anybody's messiah. That's stupid if you're not meant to be that or if you don't feel that.

You can and will be a shining beacon of light if you simply work at being a cool person and not being an asshole to others; if you simply work at lending a hand to some stranger that needs it if you're around - help him/her up if they fall on the ground while you're walking to the store for example. Smile at a kid who just accidentally kicked his soccer ball in your direction as you kick it back to him. Help an old lady cross the street if you happen to be there.

You see, a shining beacon illuminates everything that's around it by virtue of its simply being on.

You don't have to go out and try to help others.

Just be a cool person and try not to be an asshole to anybody. Help someone if it seems they might need a quick hand, and move on w/your day.

That's it. :)

lol

No. There's still a lot you can do.

So I'm obligated to throw any sort of career away because I don't believe in what the military is doing?

First of all don't think that you're throwing "any sort of career away" because you don't agree with the military and don't end up going into a career with them. There are a lot of things you can do with your life that don't involve the military.

Secondly, realize that what the military is doing isn't something as simple and benign as slapping some kid in a schoolyard on the wrist.

They are literally decimating entire countries in the name of a policy that has shown itself to be very, very spotty and leaky at best. That's quite a different thing altogether.

What you are asking me to do will give me at LEAST a dishonorable discharge.

Nothing wrong with that if you intelligently inform whoever wants to know that it's because you became aware that the life of people is more important than the money, and political advantage that a small group of greedy men wished to acquire.

Which means I can't even get a job at McDonalds.

What? McDonalds won't hire you if you've been dishonorably discharged?

I graduated from Purdue in 2009 with a Bachelor's in Computer Technology too...

Jesus Christ then, donkey! There's SO much more shit you can do with your life now that I know that! lol. Damn. It's one thing if you're a flunky with barely a highschool education and no other means of supporting yourself.

You're a fucking computer tech. You can almost work and make great money ANYWHERE, man.

Seriously.

Now, all this is not saying that you should bail out of your military post now . . . but, believe me, man . . . you've got a LOT of options in your future whether you stay in the military or not.

Know this.

I disagree. One can arrive at a great level of material wealth without war. There are absolutely better ways in which all members are materially sought after without having to engage in such levels of conflict.

Why is it never mentioned that the 99% continues to allow the members of congress to stay in office that declare these 'phony' wars.

This.

Why indeed. I wonder about this continuously.

They vote and allow the president to stay in office that uses his powers to initially send troops into places.

This again.

It's a very unpopular things to say, but voting in this country (if not the world) has really proven itself to be a real, real joke. It's all fake and contrived. They've had computer programs to tabulate votes for quite some time that can count the final tally in any way that's chosen.

Why most people get angry at the military is beyond me, since they have to take orders.

FYI I'm certainly not angry at them. Just as you said, they're merely following orders. What I'm saying is that it would be good if more of them become more aware so that they understand just how much power they do have. THEY are the ones that can really sway the tide because it is the military that the 1% use to do its bidding.

It seems like most of these people don't feel like blaming themselves for letting the people into office(congress and potus) that would allow this to happen.

I'm almost 40 and have never voted a day in my life.

This, of course, doesn't mean that I'm not "part of the system" as well, but it does mean that the reason I don't partake is because, as I stated earlier, I've understood it's all a joke from the time I was a very, very young person.

Then, members of the military would not have to take the extreme risks of trying to object to something, since we would be doing the right thing in the first place.

Well, I'm not sure it's that easy, however. The government is nothing but the face that is commanded and controlled by the rulers of the land. That is to say, the government itself isn't really the ruler of the land. If we the people are too concerned with 1) voting, and 2) trying to get the government to do this, that, or the other, then we really won't succeed because a) voting doesn't work, and b) the government doesn't run shit.

It's the people BEHIND and in control of the government that need to be exposed.

It's happening, but it feels like we're in a real race against this power to expose it and stop it before it pretty much enslaves the entire population of the world.

Thanks for including that here.

Hmmm. Might try that one as well. Thanks for that.

Thanks for bringing this up. It brings to light the very real issues and concerns involved in trying to become aware of ANY of the truth involved in the wars the armed forces are called to wage.

Some just want to be warriors.

At the expense of slaughtering people that have never done anything to them? That's not a warrior. That's an ignorant fool, a coward, or both.

Some just need the money.

Get a job. McDonald's is hiring.

They all know who to protect in the end.

No they don't - and that's the point. Who are they protecting? They're protecting the 1 percent.

They all know who they're protecting? They all know they're protecting the interests of greedy, planet-raping multi-billionaires interested in nothing but expanding their oligarchical empire?

Is that who the military knows they're protecting? And if so, then they're not our military. They're THEIR military.

I don't happen to feel this way, however. I happen to feel that the majority of the guys and gals that go in are honorable and should be respected. They go in to protect not so much "America" or "American Interests" . . . but American PEOPLE. They go in to protect the lives of the American people.

Problem with that is that they're being given orders by people that don't have the interest and the benefit and welfare of the American people in mind.

And the orders they're being given? To kill other men and women with children and families of their own in a distant land they've barely thought of before dropping bombs on them.

That's a problem.

I'm all for protecting the U.S., but if the enemy is RIGHT HERE in this land, then we need to fight the right fight, and not worry about going abroad.

Perhaps part of the problem is the incessant, dogmatic, almost religious close-mindedness that exists in the military and that is bred by those in charge of it.

One SHOULD question what is going on . . .

Cannot upvote or agree enough with this, sir. Absolutely right.

Yeah. That's really frustrating indeed because it makes you feel that there are a lot more people like this than there should be.

If you phrase it as a conflict you'll get shit.

I do not understand what you mean by this. Rephrase it if you wish.

The plus side is that the military has trained these people. These people, if it came to it, could defend their family, friends and neighbors.

Instead, however, they're killing the family, friend, and neighbors of people they don't know because they're being given orders by business tycoons that don't have their best interest in mind. This makes sense how exactly?

These people are untapped assets and should not be derided or ridiculed.

And they're NOT being derided or ridiculed - at least not by me. I honor and respect those in the armed forces. It is because I respect and honor them and what they do and stand for so much that I think it is very important to inform them when they are fighting and killing for something that is a lie. They deserve better than to risk their lives for a cause that is not in the best interest of them, their families, or their country.

They should be helped as much as possible.

Agreed. I made this thread to do my small part toward helping educate some as much as possible.

Those pawns can easily open their minds at any time.

I'm not sure it's that easy, as the military brainwashing and conditioning is deep, and much resistance will occur when one tries to inform some people.

They shouldn't be attacked.

I don't disagree with this. They shouldn't be attacked. Also, however, they should not be allowed to go off aggressively on what they think is right if what they think is, in all actuality, a lie and a fabrication.

They're still humans and deserve the decency / dignity given to any human.

I cannot agree with this more, sir. Yes.

That said, the self-appointed rulers should be arrested and jailed like the common criminals they are.

And I strongly believe it is the military that they are currently using as pawns that stand a strong chance of fighting against them when the time comes to "arrest and jail" these criminals. But that military must be educated as to what's really going on.

Open hands - not closed fists.

Cannot upvote or agree enough with your ultimate message.

Peace, brother.

If your phrasing is hostile then they'll likely become, themselves, hostile.

Yes. This is unfortunately true.

We put on hats without even knowing it most of the time.

I wish I could disagree with this or say it doesn't apply to me, but you are correct here as well.

It is more useful, generally, to put on the friendly hat so that others will see a friendly hat. This sounds completely ridiculous, and I know it, however it has served me well.

It does indeed seem ridiculous. Truth is truth. Facts are facts. It doesn't matter if you say "2 plus 2 is 4, and your mother dresses you funny." or "2+2=4 and you look great today." 2 plus 2 is still four.

People are more likely to argue with you if you state it the first way, however.

My cousin ... I think that he'll figure it out and it'll likely come as a shock.

It's unfortunate. I wish that more soldiers could have folks tell them what they're in store for so they don't go in blind.

He should be helped. He was manipulated and when he figures it out I think it'd be best to help him rather than point a finger.

I entirely and wholeheartedly agree. Who is there to help, however? Perhaps my OP didn't use the best, most kind language, but I think it's important to try to be as truthful as possible about the realities involved in these wars. That's not to say that 1) I know everything there is to know about it (far from it) or that 2) the way I said it is the best way to do so (far from it as well), but I do think that it is important for service men and women to be aware of some of these things almost regardless of how they're told. Just make sure and at least be aware of the info.

You can't wake people up or inform them.

I disagree. You can't wake everybody up or inform everyone, but that's not to say that you can't wake anybody up or inform them. There are some individuals (like myself) that simply won't get some types of information if it's explained in ten different ways. However, there are other people (like myself as well) that you can take other types of info and explain them, and just by understanding your message abstractly they can figure out everything they're supposed to in that manner.

It really just all depends on the subject matter.

I feel that I do see your point, however.

Someone told me, but it didn't sink in at all until I was ready for it.

Just because certain seeds need years to germinate, however, it doesn't mean that you weren't taught by the person who initially planted them in you - even if it may have been ages ago and long forgotten. It just took a while before the seeds and the information flowered.

All you can do is talk about things that interest you. And when you see a newly minded person all you can do is try to help them in whatever way you can.

I agree. Sometimes they understand and agree immediately. Other times they will entirely scoff at you and nothing will ever get through. Others they will scoff initially, but then understand long after you're gone.

Either way, all you can do is simply express what you feel as best as you can, and let the rest handle itself. You teach, you learn, etc.

What I mean is I have never awoken anyone ever.

Correct. You can only awake yourself. However - and this is a big "however" - there are many that can shake you enough to cause you to awake. YOU are the one that does your own awaking. Others, however, can help to shake the sleep out of you.

Just because the person in question is the only one that can wake themselves, that's no reason to let someone soundly and quietly sleep in a sea of complete ignorance without any attempt on your part to clang them awake with the clamor of truth and information. I feel if one has interesting and possibly little-known information, then if they get the opportunity to express their perspective on things - whether popular or not - they should do it.

I think defending yourself or loved ones is acceptable.

I agree.

I have something like optimism that people are catching on like never before. En masse at that.

I feel this quite a bit myself. I wouldn't call it optimism in my case, however. I would call it a type of awareness of sorts that I have experienced growing more and more in me. Perhaps I am only projecting, however, because my own awareness has been expanding significantly in the last few years. I'm not sure it's only projection, however.

I sound as though I don't advocate public discussion of these things.

Hmmm . . . I didn't get that at all, sir. No sarcasm there, by the way.

Really, this kind of stuff is ALL I talk about.

This kind of stuff is much of what I think and talk about as well.

I want to see a world in which people are nice and help each other.

You have made this entire thread well worth the effort.

Thank you, sir.

Are you saying for the armed forces to rebel against civilian authority of the republic?

Not quite sure I even understand that question.

Me after reading the remainder of your sentences.

Is there any way you could rephrase your sentence(s) in a way that I might better understand them? I'm honestly not quite sure I understand what you're asking.

Are you actually wondering if I'm advocating the military...

You know what? I can't even really hazard a guess as to what you're really wondering. Sorry. I'd really like to respond to what you're asking, but I can't quite wrap my head around what exactly it is that's being asked.

I certainly didn't mean to even imply that those in the armed forces are nothing but kill-happy drones. To say that one is a pawn can mean that one does their duty with honor even if you don't know you're are being used as a pawn. To be used as a pawn doesn't necessarily mean that one takes pleasure in causing harm to others.

There is very little you really understand about how the world works. It is unfortunate, because your antagonism is the exact type of characteristic that the establishment uses to harm you and others in it.

This is very sad.

Do you think that I'm suggesting our military only protects us by waging wars?

By proxy, Smurf, yes. You are. You're suggesting and allowing that because regardless of what the military is supposed to do during "peace" time, 1) they're almost ALWAYS at war, and 2) the wars they are called upon to wage are almost always (if not always) contrived, filled with lies, and about nothing but killing others in the name of conquest.

Is it possible that having a military is, in itself, a defensive posture?

It's certainly possible, but that's not how it's been used in the history of this country - so no.

Do you think that there are no other forces that wouldn't take our natural resources if we completely stripped all our forces of their weapons?

At THIS point, Smurf, there are a LOT of countries that are interested in killing the U.S. It's not because those countries are simply assholes though. It's because WE are and have been to them. If the U.S. were more interested in cohabitation and peace rather than conquest and war, then maybe it would be a lot easier to not have all those weapons.

Are you literally suggesting that our military doesn't offer you any protection at all? Is that what you're saying?

Read my above response.

You're criticizing one of the few reasonable people that would defend most of the crazy bullshit you guys post on here as a "take the good from the bad" reason for reading.

You call yourself one of the "few reasonable people" when what you do is come on here and spout sarcasm and vitriol? How is that reasonable? You call that reasonable? I call that confused and ignorant, not reasonable.

You also come on here and call what's on this subreddit "bullshit" - which definitively shows that you really know very, very little about what's actually going on in the world. Please. Seriously. Educate yourself. It does you a great disservice to come on here (or go anywhere) and call people that show they know a great deal more than you about a great many things uneducated.

Ultimately, You're making the mistake of calling yourself and what you've been saying reasonable. You really shouldn't give yourself that much credit.

If I'm the enemy, you have a fight you cannot win, or worst, you don't even understand who or what you're fighting.

Why is it that you would ever think that I (or anyone for that matter) see you as "the enemy"? I personally don't see you as important or knowledgeable enough to stand as any sort of enemy or foe - much less a worthy one that should be worried about if you were an enemy.

The very fact that you look at things from this twisted "enemy" paradigm is a great indication that you're simply a degenerate in terms of your thought process. That's not anything that I look at antagonistically. I look at it with pity.

And you're right, it isn't a fight that I would ever win because I would simply never engage in it.

I'm pretty sure I've never posted sarcasm. Everything I've written is true.

The very fact that you typed that second sentence is proof positive that you haven't the least idea what you speak of. Additionally, it almost entirely invalidates your first sentence.

I would imagine that you're not aware of either of those things.

I've even given tips on how to look less crazy.

and given that you appear to know not the first thing about what you speak, I would be afraid of anyone who would be ignorant enough to actually listen to you.

There are a lot of bullshit posts on this subreddit.

There very well might be. However, anyone who is ignorant and short sighted enough to disregard the validity in the posts that are not, as you call it, "bullshit", would be very much the worse for wear.

The ones that say reptiles from another planet have agents working here already springs to mind

Again, your type of mentality - the type that unquestioningly accepts the regurgitated dogma of his or her state and is not intelligent enough to critically examine the world around them to realize that much of it is not as you are told - is the exact type of mind set that the 1% want.

You make the leaders of this world very proud indeed.

Most of the posts on this subreddit are nothing more than filler and no killer.

See? Listen to how you even phrase things. It's a feeble (and exceedingly failing) attempt at witticism with no real substance. It falls flat and succeeds at little but making you look like someone who is trying desperately to sound smart and cool, all the while being on a ship that's quickly sinking under the weight of its own ignorant pretense.

Everyone sits around agreeing with each other without providing substance or plans of action.

Not really. I'm disagreeing with you right now, and have been through a good portion of this dialogue w/you. And as far as not providing substance or plans of action? I would differ with that as well, as the process of simply shedding the light of knowledge and awareness upon things that have been shrouded in dogmatic darkness is one of the first, most important steps that leads to the type of action needed to effect change in corrupt societies.

Then they criticize anyone that calls them out on it as cogs in the machine.

Really? Where do you see that? I for one would AGREE if you were to "call me out" and say I'm a cog in the machine.

That's part of what this entire thread is about: Trying to let people know just how we are being used as cogs by a machine that is using us for nefarious purposes - purposes that we likely wouldn't agree with in the least if we actually knew about them.

You are wrong, the military does protect us.

No. The military is here to protect a way of life that rapes, kills, and consumes other people, cultures, and the planet in general. You are taught and conditioned to believe that this is the best way to be - that this is the best society to be in. America is cool in some ways, but has a lot to learn in terms of development and the evolution of the species toward better ways of being.

Their existence alone prevents attacks and protects you every day.

You are wrong, my friend. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The existence of the military as an instigating weapon on this planet has been responsible for keeping the fires of antagonism and conflict going when nothing of the sort has ever been necessary to live in a world of cohabitation. Right now, the world is far from one of cohabitation, and a large reason for that has to do with how the 1% are directing those honorable but entirely blinded and ignorant people in the military that think they're defending freedom when what they're really doing is defending a quickly materialising dictatorship.

They may be used for evil agendas, but so are you.

Yep. Absolutely. Of course I'm being used as fuel for the 1%'s evil agendas. You're right about that.

The big question, however, is what are you going to DO about it?

I'm choosing to try to educate myself and others about this agenda as much as possible in the hopes that we as a species can evolve and become better - not worse.

You seem to be interested in remaining ignorant and doggedly supporting it. That is unfortunate.

You pay your taxes, you're another cog in the machine.

Does this make you feel better? Does it let you puff your chest out in the air more and go "Hmph! I told him!"? Is that what you were trying to accomplish with that last statement? It certainly didn't shed any new information that wasn't already understood.

This is part of the reason FOR this subreddit.

It's funny if you think about it, because with the very last sentence you posted, you're actually siding with and agreeing with the ultimate message that this subreddit which you try to deride so much is actually about.

We're all cogs in a machine. There's no problem if that machine is a GOOD machine - a machine designed to help us all be better creatures - but that machine is NOT designed to help us become better creatures. That machine works diligently and incessantly at keeping us ignorant.

Wake up, Smurfette. Wake up.

I woke up today and still think that the idea of evil reptiles from other planets plotting against us is still bullshit.

lol. It's not "sleeping on it" that's going to give you a different perspective. It's looking at and critically examining the relevant information available.

Regardless of whether one objectively examines the data or not, however, the issue of reptilians is really small potatoes. There are so many other issues on this planet that are hidden from people that deciding to fully investigate the issue of reptilians is of little consequence.

Someone who rejects the vast level of manipulation that exists on this planet by the 1% because "the concept of reptilians is bullshit" is missing the point of logical reasoning by at least a mile.

And everything I'm claiming does not have to be true in order for you to still be patently incorrect in thinking that "everything" spoken about in r/conspiracy is false. Don't know if you understand that or not.

Regardless, here's your first homework assignment:

Look up Dr. John Mack from Harvard and the research he's done. If you can't understand the validity of his work, then you might not be able to get much further on things.

Besides the fact that there are credible individuals who directly attest to having witnessed such beings (Credo Mutwa not being the least of which), besides the fact that - independent of Reptilians in and of themselves - there is a literal deluge of humans across the planet who irrespective of one another report the same beings (whether reptillian, nordic, tall white, grey, or otherwise), and besides the fact that there are various individuals infinitely more credentialed than you or I who have done extensive, clinical research on a lot of these witnesses (Harvard's Dr. John Mack not being the least of such investigators), there is the simple matter of numbers which, independent of any such reports previously mentioned here, play largely against the abysmally, blindly short-sighted notion that so many on this planet have which thinks that we are "alone" in the universe.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Regardless of all of this, however, it would be extremely erroneous of you to cite the data on reptilians as being the sole and only bit of information you hang your coat of doubt on. It would truly be ridiculous on your or anyone's part to discard or discredit an entire field of research and variegated phenomena based upon a doubt or level of ignorance you have upon one specific and particular aspect of it. That would be a fallacy of the highest order.

2

Yeah. I just checked where the quote of mine you cited came from.

Uh, that was waaayy back when in the threads. Why on earth are you bringing that up NOW? What does that have to do with what we're talking about now? It's like you just decided to throw that out there all the sudden as if I were even responding to anything having to do with that statement on my part. Again, I was responding to something totally and completely different - and much more recent - that you asked and seemed to want an answer to. Then you seemed to switch gears all the sudden and accused me of getting "way off point" when I actually did directly address you question.

facepalm.

Soooo. Let's try this again:

So the question I'm asking isn't prove what your saying about evil reptiles plotting against us, it is why did you make that statement in response to what I said.

Okay, I'm assuming here that the statement of mine you're wondering about here is the one I, again, made back when regarding your alleging that you've "never posted sarcasm. Everything I've written is true."

First and foremost, your second sentence strongly implies (if not necessarily presumes) omniscience. So you're saying you're omniscient? You're saying you've never told a lie? You're saying you've never fabricated something in your life? You're saying you've never been mistaken about something that you thought was initially true, written whatever you wrote, and then later found out you were mistaken?

If any of this is the case, you're either the world's smartest three year old (because you obviously couldn't have been alive too long if you've never written anything you were mistaken about), or you're written almost NOTHING ever in your entire life.

And honestly? I don't have the slightest interest in going back over the dribble that has predominantly been this dialogue, but I can almost guarantee you that if I did, I'd find enough in what you wrote that was either patently incorrect, logically absurd, or inductively fallacious to further illustrate the point being made here. Either way, the point is that you or anyone stating that "everything you've written is true" reeks of a level of ignorance and hubris hardly worth taking the time to validate or refute.

And as for your never having posted sarcasm, I quickly skimmed through, and although I found more than one post that absolutely could be construed as containing sarcasm ("I'm a simpleton who can't understand your logic, please explain it to me." is, believe it or not, sarcastic by virtue of the implied contradiction involved in your calling yourself something that you clearly believe you're not), I've discovered that even though your posts haven't been replete with it, your ardent assumption that they had none of it indicates a level of, again, hubris that is simply extremely unbecoming of anyone trying to make any type of argument for themselves.

Please explain why I appear ignorant enough that no one would listen to me.

No one with a proper understanding of objectivity anyway.

I'll make a general statement to this effect, as responding to you is no longer worth a sustained effort on my part.

You came one here aggressively responding to me and others in a manner that protects the military status quo and those that keep in power the blood-thirsty actions of a nation that seems hell bent upon conquest at the expense of anything just, moral, and pious. While it might be understandable that you might be just plain ignorant and simply not know the information that's out pointing in this very direction, the arrogance and hubris with which you simply assume that you have an idea about what is going on is simply ridiculous.

Na. If you don't get, see, and understand just how lacking the things you've said here are based upon the explanations I gave, then I simply am not interested enough in continuing with the attempt.

If this country continues to move in the direction of the fascist, totalitarian police state that, for all factual intents and purposes, it seems to absolutely be moving toward, then you'll understand soon enough how unfortunately misguided you are in defending some of the things you have on here anyway.

Proving how wrong you are is absolutely nothing for me or anyone to feel good or happy about, however, as I would love for all the signs to not be pointing in the direction that they're pointing.

But - news flash here - they are.

Wow. You're still really stuck on that? You're really willing to simply not let that go? even after I already made more than one attempt at explaining it to you? If the only thing that's keeping you in this conversation is wanting some sort of explanation or example of your ignorance, then simply go over the entirety of the conversation we've had on here. I'm personally not interested enough to do that - even if that means you still won't get or understand how and where you've erred here. It's not that important to me.

1

You're getting way off point here.

What? I thought I was responding to your following statement:

You didn't explain the quote I provided. Please do so, I would honestly like to hear your thought process.

And I thought what I did was honestly explain things. And now you're telling me that I'm getting "way off point" . . . so . . . I don't know exactly where to go from here.

Additionally, the quote of mine that you're referencing:

"The very fact that you typed that second sentence is proof positive that you haven't the least idea what you speak of. Additionally, it almost entirely invalidates your first sentence."

...is not even from the previous set of responses here. Nothing of the sort is even stated in the statement of mine you're directly responding to right here. So what on Earth are you even talking about?

There is obviously some gross level of misunderstanding on your part, my part, or both parts.

I will have to return and respond to what you're attempting to get at a bit later, as I'm a bit encumbered right now, and won't be able to spend the time trying to figure out what you're actually asking.

Smurfette said to no1113: "I'm pretty sure I've never posted sarcasm."

Yes, they are both great big teddy bears of misunderstanding the media has painted as possible enemies.

Smurfette, you have no idea what sarcasm is or is not okay? Seriously. Get the fuck out. Apologies for even thinking about giving you the benefit of the doubt in any previous statements I made. You're just a plain idiot, sorry to say.

That appears to be a pretty good dick move, antagonizing the people that protect you.

You really, REALLY have to understand, Smurfalot, that these people DON'T protect us. They DON'T. You must understand that they're ruled over and take orders from an elite that are not interested in their protecting US - they're interested in using them to take over countries and acquire land that's not theirs.

They use the honor that these soldiers go in with and trample upon it with false promises and lies. It is not antagonizing anyone if you go in there and let them know that they're being lied to.

Do you understand that?

That is not antagonizing. It is doing your duty as a citizen by informing those that are meant to protect you that what they're doing is NOT protecting you. The orders that they're following from the people that they're taking them from are hurting you as a citizen, and are hurting them.

They have nothing to do with the decisions made about where they go, or what they do.

Exactly. They're ignorant, right? They don't know. They're only supposed to do what they do without questioning. Follow orders with honor - but don't question.

It would be even BETTER if they do question so that they can find out and see that the orders they're being given AREN'T honorable.

Understand that.

Most just wanted to escape their past, or get an education.

This is understood and granted.

The military doesn't function well with the ideals they protect, so it bleeds over into their off time.

Then the world and the citizens need to do some real soul searching and question and wonder if the military and those that run it are the types that you really want to listen to and take orders from.

Why would they want the place they go to relax mentally to be another source of conflict?

Because EVERY place in your life will be a source of conflict if you're called upon to do immoral things involving murdering other people and you don't question whether you should be doing it or not.

There is no conspiracy here

There doesn't need to be a conspiracy, nor am I assuming or saying there is.

you're a dick for doing that and they were right to ban you.

I'm a dick for doing what? For letting the people who are supposed to be sworn to protect us know that they're actually NOT doing what they're supposed to be sworn to do?

That's not a dick move, Smurfette. That's a service to the country.

I disagree. One can arrive at a great level of material wealth without war. There are absolutely better ways in which all members are materially sought after without having to engage in such levels of conflict.

Na. It just means he's going to have to man the fuck up a lot more than he thought he'd have to if he wants to get out. It's not the end of the world though - much as it might seem to him initially if he decided to try to get out. If he prepared himself adequately (psychologically and emotionally) and was very ready, it might be the best thing that could happen in his life.

With great power comes great responsibility.

Yeah. We need a lot more Joe six-packs to start realizing that something just feels wrong.

I woke up today and still think that the idea of evil reptiles from other planets plotting against us is still bullshit.

lol. It's not "sleeping on it" that's going to give you a different perspective. It's looking at and critically examining the relevant information available.

Regardless of whether one objectively examines the data or not, however, the issue of reptilians is really small potatoes. There are so many other issues on this planet that are hidden from people that deciding to fully investigate the issue of reptilians is of little consequence.

Someone who rejects the vast level of manipulation that exists on this planet by the 1% because "the concept of reptilians is bullshit" is missing the point of logical reasoning by at least a mile.

And everything I'm claiming does not have to be true in order for you to still be patently incorrect in thinking that "everything" spoken about in r/conspiracy is false. Don't know if you understand that or not.

Regardless, here's your first homework assignment:

Look up Dr. John Mack from Harvard and the research he's done. If you can't understand the validity of his work, then you might not be able to get much further on things.

Na. If you don't get, see, and understand just how lacking the things you've said here are based upon the explanations I gave, then I simply am not interested enough in continuing with the attempt.

If this country continues to move in the direction of the fascist, totalitarian police state that, for all factual intents and purposes, it seems to absolutely be moving toward, then you'll understand soon enough how unfortunately misguided you are in defending some of the things you have on here anyway.

Proving how wrong you are is absolutely nothing for me or anyone to feel good or happy about, however, as I would love for all the signs to not be pointing in the direction that they're pointing.

But - news flash here - they are.