Can you give any examples of the advanced technology that they had access to?

Numerous varieties of potato that ranged in color from white to purple to yellow to red capable of growing any where from sea-level to high-altitude.

That were drought tolerant, or wet-condition tolerant.

Today, you commonly eat these sliced thin and deep-fried, or boiled and mashed.

The potato. One of the greatest achievements of pre-Colombian South America.

If you're not aware of this; remains of sweet potatoes have been found in pre-Columbian archaeological sites in Polynesia, and the word for it is similar to that of the Incan word for it. Chicken bones have also been found in pre-Columbian archaeological sites in South America. This is considered pretty solid evidence that there was trans-Pacific pre-Columbian contact.

.....and?

(And, yes, I'm aware of these findings.)

Fun fact.

Yes. It is.

It really gives quite a bit of credit to the inventors of the outrigger boat.

Potato. It's what's for dinner.

My dear Lord_Bumberchute,

You have neglected to mention the greatest genetic achievement of the Indo-European culture ... Homo nonSapient CouchPotatos ... a most marvolus specimen of hybrid stock.

a most marvolus specimen of breeding stock.

And it seems most amazing how they can excrete knowledge without ever touching a book, or legitimate references of any type.

It's like they are magic!

Baghdad battery.

For the lazy...

Watch this recent episode of Ancient Aliens (Puma Punku) and try and tell me that this civilization didn't have access to power tools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jafd9_IZCk

Disregard the speculation and jumping to conclusions in that episode, ALIENS! but there are clearly drill holes and right angles that are so precise it would be preposterous to say they did it with stone tools. These are 100-ton stones, at 13,000 feet, from a quarry 60 miles away. The stonework at this particular site is incredible.

I also recommend Fingerprints of the Gods, which documents the incredible creations of ancient civs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods

People like to downplay ancient aliens and while I disagree with a bunch of stuff on the show I still find it interesting and enjoyable. I do not trust them simply because they are part of the MSM so they have their own agenda. That does not mean everything you are fed is 100% lies, even if 1% of it could be truth it is worth the time; that is if your goal of viewing the show is only for knowledge only.

I like to view the show the way I view star trek, game of thrones, lost, or any other fantasy show. I like to think about how things could fit together and how I would do things if I were put in a situation of trying to organize all this data. While my conclusions may not be realistic I still like the outcomes I come to, I do not however use them as a basis of fact for anything. It would be nice if there were a group of people who while they did not believe anything on the show were able to view the show in a similar way, and take it as seriously as they do other fantasy shows. Some people really love to get into their shows, and there are huge wiki databases and subreddits to ironing out the smallest of details of their favorite television series or movies. It would just be interesting to see people view ancient aliens in the same light even if it were just for fun. As of right now the only thing people seem to invest into the show is anger. It is a television show, it is here for your entertainment. If you do not believe what they are saying that's fine, no one is asking you to. Everything you do and believe is based on your own freewill.

Anyways the thing I really wanted to talk about relating to that episode was the part where they make the door hinge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3jafd9_IZCk#t=1769s

and the part where they make the ramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3jafd9_IZCk#t=2032s

I thought they both were very interesting regardless of if they were true or not. To me this is what happens when you give a kid legos and they are able to come up with interesting uses for the blocks that someone else may not have been able to think of. There was a reason these blocks were shaped the way they are, my personal opinion is that it had nothing to do with aliens. I'm a believer however of the highly civilized - civilization that lived 12,000 years ago who aligned their structures as a marker of their year of creation with the stars.

If anyone is interested in more information about the "lost civilizations from 12,000 years ago" I would like to suggest:

Graham Hancock's "Quest For The Lost Civilization" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yz1DfTF3-E

Another thing that people might find interesting to look into if they like the 12,000 year old civilization theory are the tunnels under europe and the middle east. Some people believe that these were all connected together during an ice age as a way to safely travel from city to city. I believe ancient aliens did a show on this, but I don't remember what they believed they could have been used for.

Do you have any information on those tunnels? I've never heard of them before.

Sorry I don't have a lot of information it's been a while but here is what I just found now.

While some of these tunnels seem "too small" for use today you would have to assume that humans were smaller back then, and or there has been degradation of the networks overtime. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2022322/The-massive-European-network-Stone-Age-tunnels-weaves-Scotland-Turkey.html for example this article estimates they are 12,000 - this is important

Rehash of above and other comments/info: http://the-end-time.blogspot.ca/2011/08/huge-network-of-stone-age-tunnels.html

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/turkeyderinkuyu.htm "Derinkuyu is one of five inter-connected underground complexes with a total estimated capacity of 100,000 people" Here are some other underground cities in Turkey: http://www.mydestination.com/cappadocia/6179053/top-10-underground-cities-of-cappadocia http://nangka.org/events/archives/2146 http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/adventure/news-worlds-beneath-worlds-derinkuyu-underground-city

The Bosnian pyramid might be linked to the 12,000 year old civilization: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4912040.stm "The team found two intersections with other tunnels leading off to the left and right. Their conclusion was that it had to be man-made." "there is evidence of 7,000-year-old human settlements in the valley." http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/bosniapyramids.htm

Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids Tunnel Network 3D Render http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBH6UjweTvY#t=75s

It's somewhat hard to gather links for this subject but tunnels have been common practice for some time now, usually as form of escapes from castles/chuches. I couldn't really find what I hoped but here's some other interesting tunnel related links:

Robin Hood's Prison: Uncovering Nottingham's Hidden Medieval Sandstone Caves http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100513112755.htm http://nottinghamcavessurvey.org.uk/

Tunnels Under My House/City (England, Liverpool) http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread711027/pg1

Hideouts or Sacred Spaces? http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,775348,00.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1371492/Catacomb-secret-tunnels-packed-mummified-remains-EIGHT-MILLION-dogs-excavated-Egypt.html "Catacomb of secret tunnels packed with mummified remains of EIGHT MILLION dogs is excavated in Egypt"

Hundreds of Mummies Found in Egyptian Caves http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/05/0519_040519_egyptmummies.html

Archeologists find ancient tunnel used to escape Romans http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2007-09-09-israeltunnel_N.htm

Ancient Gaza tunnels discovered http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtMzJkqkEVw

The strange tunnels of Malta and tales about them http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=3465 http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_malta02.htm

I hope this was at least interesting since I was unable to find what I was looking for right now. As for the ice age stuff I would just do a quick search for that along with flash freezing/mammoth stuff

Thanks a lot man I've got a lot of reading to do!

One more that I find quite interesting: Grand Canyon Underground City

It was discovered in 1909, and there were claims of Egyptian artifacts and such, but after the discoverer "died", there was no one else allowed there as it is on Government land. The Grand Canyon Also houses what some call the Temple of Isis.

Jeebus! I had no idea so many underground cities/dwellings have been found. Awesome stuff, thanks for the post!

I saw that episode too and while I found the drill holes to be very precise, it doesn't automatically mean power tools were used. Stone drill bits have been found that show signs of being used with a stringed bow. Drilled holes in teeth have been found down to a diameter of 1mm. To drill a series of holes in a perfectly straight line can be accomplished with nothing more than flint and string.

Moving stones 60 miles is a big feat but still not impossible. In fact it seems to be relatively common among ancient monument builders. My own theory is they dug canals and floated the stones on boats, and used rollers where they couldn't make a canal. Most of Britains canal network was dug by hand, power machinery wasn't necesssary, and shovels aren't anything technologically advanced. There are records and mythologies of priests moving stones with trumpets and with their voices, perhaps that is true and something we have forgotten how to do. There must be a reason why only certain types of stone were selected. Durability and aesthetics were considerations, but local availability was often shunned in favour of sourcing particular types of stones from great distances away.

You have to look at it this way; more people back then were expert at stone and wood working, far more than today. We have tools to cut and lift stone, but there are only a handful of sculptors alive who can read and work stone like prehistoric people could. There were tens of thousands of years of skill development. And those were the only two materials to use for all that time. That's the same reason why they were such expert astronomers, there was literally nothing but the stars after the sun went down. No TV, no radio, no newspapers, their entertainment was the sky. And practically everyone worked stone and wood, they didn't go to Walmart to get arrowheads - they made them.

I love ancient mysteries, I have dozens of books on all sorts of places and almost all the authors make the mistake of underestimating human ingenuity and capability. There is no reason to believe that the raw intelligence of a human has increased in the last 10,000 years. Yes we are much more specialised today, and the amount of knowledge has increased exponentially - but the capacity for understanding and becoming expert hasn't increased. So why immediately jump to the "ancient astronaut hypothesis". I'll tell you why, because every single person on that show sells books about it. Von Daniken is the executive producer. The show is a sales vehicle for their work.

I agree that Puma Punku (among other places) shows amazing technical feats, and I'm totally open to the idea that it was built using forgotten tools and methods. I also believe ET life must exist. But I watch that show every week and I can almost always come up with some way to disprove their ancient alien theory. I like that they show us these wonderful places, but I'd get almost as much enjoyment if I watched it with the sound turned off.

Has your sci-fi/ancient mystery research led you into any inquiries to modern ufology? Just curious, as it definitely absolutely took researching that to even begin to look at the ancient alien hypothesis.

BTW, Puma Punku elevation is roughly 14,000 feet, so canals and floating are kinda out, I guess it could still work but not as easy as floating it downstream. I wonder how big of a boat you would need to move 100-ton stone that isn't bigger than 20-some feet? Thats a lot of weight with not a lot of distribution.

Well I wouldn't count reading books as research but I suppose it must be. They aren't unbiased sources is what I mean.

I'm familiar with the UFO "scene" or whatever but I don't really take an interest in it. Personally I believe most of it is disinformation to keep people occupied, to make money, and to confuse foreign intelligence. (That sounds so paranoid lol, but theres evidence to show that happened in the past).

You're right to bring up the elevation of the Puma Punku site, I was thinking about that as I wrote it. It's not a good example of potentially using canals and boats.

Boats float by displacement of water. So whatever a 100 ton stone displaces would need to be what the boat displaces. I agree it would not be a small boat. But look at the ancient Egyptian boats e.g, those things are enormous. Hatshepsuts barge was estimated at almost 100m long with a carrying capacity of over 1000 tons. And that was 2500 years ago. And there was shitloads more wood available then than today. And far more people who knew how to build boats.

I still think a lot of genuine ancient mysteries exist, I'm not doubting that. But I always try to find a more boring answer than aliens, because well why would they build all this stuff. They have much better methods of communicating with us, much better places to study us from, much better reasons to not build anything it would seem.

Edit:

Not to mention, how the heck are aliens getting to here. Either they have infinite energy or a method to convert mass particles into non mass particles. One of those is impossible and the other might as well be.

So whatever a 100 ton stone displaces would need to be what the boat displaces

Wait, wait, wait. I'm not a physicist (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but isn't the amount of water the boat has to displace also commensurate/influenced by/related to the air pressure as well? For instance, if Earth suddenly had twice as much atmosphere, a 100 ton barge would only displace half the amount of water as it does here on "regular" Earth. Or something like that. Isn't air pressure also a factor as well? Because, at 14k feet up, you would need MORE water. Well, not MORE, but maybe more. Not sure. Just chiming in with what I hope isn't totally scientifically erroneous thinking, here.

I really don't know, good question though.

That is why I like the Ancient Aliens show - you can glean interesting stuff from it, and not necessarily go whole hog into the whole aliens thing.

Did you know that that same population that is supposedly "too advanced" also was used as a slave labor force to hollow out a mountain?

That mountain, Cerro Rico, is the source of the majority of the planet's silver supply.

It was harvested by hand, by humans.

The descendants of the people who built Machu Pichu.

Why do you cling to the idea that "something else" did what amazing humans did?

Is it because they were not Europeans, or is it something else?

This. I always cringe when I hear people saying how "there's nooo way humans could have done that." We humans are pretty fucking resourceful, and just because you can't comprehend how to build something doesn't mean nobody can.

Especially if you have a lot of people working on it together.

You don't get it, do you? You made your mind and you don't want to listen or read anything else. Puma Punku ruins are so perfect and well done that we would have trouble doing it right now, and for sure we won't waste our time, we would find a simpler solution... because doing it like they did it would be way too expensive and time consuming (even with our computer controled mills, CNC). Who in the right mind will think that something like that can be achieved with stone tools by people that - supposedly - didn't yet discover the wheel? The problem is that the mainstream archaeology doesn't look at anything that doesn't fit with the official story. Also, there is not just one rock, it's a lot of them, identical to each other. The pieces are made like... they came off a line in a factory. Open your mind and study for yourself.

They did discover the wheel, it was found on toy carts in the city of Tenochtitlan. And have you yourself seen these stones and their measurements? or are you just going off what the authors on the "History Channel" said? It would be difficult yes, but not impossible. There just isn't enough interest to recreate the process considering it would violate modern human rights laws... and its just easier and more exciting to say aliens did it, when in fact imagining the amazing power of human creativity and resourcefulness is much more awe-inspiring.

I'm not going to argue with you, because you made your mind and that's fine. There are two kinds of people that talk about Puma Punku, historians who say "nothing to see here, move along" and engineers: "we can't make something like this today". I'm an engineer too and I have to agree with the engineers, because the Puma Punku ruins are not just a bunch a boulders on top of each other like the Stonehenge is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is made by aliens. My theory is that there were civilizations long before the recorded history, that were as advanced as we are (if not more advanced).... and for some reasons they were no more... and we find what's left of them and scratch our heads. Just imagine, if an earth changing cataclysm destroys our civilization, our scientific advances would disappear for ever. A future civilization that will rise from the survivors would not understand our ruins... and in few thousands of years, gues what would be left? Probably the Pyramid of Cheops, Puma punku and few other ancient ruins. Almost nothing would be left from us.

Also, keep in mind, a future civilization that rises from our ashes would have hard time getting to the level we are. There are no more metals and minerals left that are easy to mine for. Same for oil, they won't be able to get to it.

Anyway, I truly believe that there is more to ancient history than the official history text books teaches us. I'm not saying that some know the truth and won't tell us, is just that the main stream Archaeology cover their ears and yell "lalalala, I can't hear you" when a fluke is presented. How many history professors would have to dismiss their own papers and publications if the official ancient time line proves to be wrong?

I too am an engineer, though of the chemical nature, and as for your hypothesis that there was a much more advanced society who had greater knowledge than our modern engineers, well I can agree with some of that. I just dislike it when people credit these achievements to outer space or other magic when it was in the end just math, hard work and perseverance. And as for why modern engineers can't build it the same way its just a lack of experience, our engineers are trained on computers and with books whereas they lived and worked with stones for centuries, perfecting their techniques that have been lost to us due to it being a largely orated history. I'm open to new theories as long as their is reasonable evidence to support it and not speculation.

I just dislike it when people credit these achievements to outer space or other magic when it was in the end just math, hard work and perseverance.

This is how I feel about CT: Conspiracy Theorists see something is wrong. They see the lie, they identify it as a lie, and they are correct in that identification. Then they make the supreme mistake of trying to fill in the blanks, and people like you mock them for working from a less-than-full playbook. It's our blessing and our curse that we have to know 'why?' everything; by the same token that it helps us sniff out bullshit, it also dooms us to reading improperly into the bullshit.

I personally believe that there was an ancient society, it was much more advanced than ours, and it became ET after it built a number of extremely long-lasting time capsules, also known as the pyramids and equinox-focused 'impossible' architecture, which contain hints and evidence of numerous mathematical measurements to act as a roadmap to the stars for later societies. but none of this matters, because much more important is what I don't believe.

The Pyramid of Giza contains a number of very important numbers (this I do believe): * Pi * The Golden Number * The Length of the Meter * The Length of the Cubit * The Speed of Light.

What I don't believe is that it was "perfected techniques lost to us due to largely orated history," that taught Bronze Age humans the speed of light so they could integrate it into one of the pyramid's ratios. I also don't believe that the same taught Bronze Age humans to orient The Pyramid at Giza perfectly with magnetic north, to within five hundredths of a degree, a level we couldn't even approximate as of the 18th century, without knowledge of poles, magnetic fields, compasses, scientifically accurate maps, or even that the Earth was round. I also can't believe it to be mere coincidence that it happens to be this way.

a) The Egyptian number Pi wasn't exactly correct but a good approximation that came about do to clever mathematics http://numberwarrior.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/on-the-egyptian-value-for-pi/

b) The Golden Ratio, or rather The Sacred Ratio as it was referred to in Ancient Egypt is again, approximated by the pyramids. Its a ratio that crops up in nature everywhere and easy to discover, 3:4:5 triangle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio#Pyramids

c) The length of the meter was not a unit of measurement in Ancient Egypt they used the Cubit

d) The Cubit was a unit of measurement divided into palms, roughly an arm length. Still a common way to describe how long something is.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_units_of_measurement

e) The speed of light is as 299792458 m/s roughly. This man tried to relate its speed in mph to the shape of the pyramid even though the standard mile of today wasn't agreed upon until 1959.

Sooo pretty much you were wrong.

And yet, the meter and the speed of light are both contained in the Pyramid of Giza. Again, CT sees the lie, acknowledges the lie, but often comes up with the wrong explanation for it. You're repeating the lie because you see it as unquestionable fact presented by irrefutable sources (even though you don't actually know the sources nor their reliability), and you cited the most plastic of all reference points as evidence. I see the lie for what it is, but may be wrong about filling in the blanks; this I freely acknowledge.

The main central shaft, which is maintained at a precise grade throughout, is precisely 1m wide by 100m long. There is no round cubit measurement that encompasses either, and in fact, the only accurate and consistent measurement for the cubit is derived from "Egyptian" architecture and cubit rods, all of which have proven to be precisely equal in length. Wikipedia attributes this length to the "royal cubit," inaccurately using an approximation in doing so.

You are also wrong (fortunately for you, so too is Wikipedia) about where the cubit is derived from. In "Egyptian" architecture, its length is in fact constant: .5236m. It wasn't until a decade ago that Egyptologists changed the definition of the cubit; no one knows why it was done. I can posit a reason: The accurate measure of the cubit is actually derived from the meter; the cubit is 1/6th of the circumference of a circle of 1m diameter (try it). This means Egyptians must have known the meter, unless they stumbled across the exact same measurement using some other method, or were using the precise measurement of a "meter" without referring to it as such.

Additionally, the speed of light is contained in the base of the pyramid, again using meters. If you draw the Pyramid, accurately proportioned, on paper, you have a square with a center point. Using a compass, if you trace a circle as large as possible inside the pyramid, and trace a circle outside the pyramid as small as possible (touching all four corners), and subtract the length of the inside circle from the length of the outside one, you are left with a length, in meters, which if expanded to scale equal to the speed of light in millions of meters per second.

SoL (in million meters per second): 299.792458 Measurement I mentioned above: 299.79613

Try it.

The meter is an arbitrary unit of measurement, do you understand this?

Additionally, the speed of light is contained in the base of the pyramid, again using meters. If you draw the Pyramid, accurately proportioned, on paper, you have a square with a center point. Using a compass, if you trace a circle as large as possible inside the pyramid, and trace a circle outside the pyramid as small as possible (touching all four corners), and subtract the length of the inside circle from the length of the outside one, you are left with a length, in meters, which if expanded to scale equal to the speed of light in millions of meters per second.

lol

And I guess it's also wrong that the Pyramid was aligned with true North? Or that it shows when the equinoxes or solstices are occurring? Or that it's outer casing was so precisely lined up that not even a hair could fit in between the blocks? There are many more viable reasons to assume it was built with precision and meaning.

Do you mean to say that a single point was lined up with another single point? HOLY SHIT! that is incredible! or more likely... INSANELY OBVIOUS AND EASY TO DO.

Oh a human hair couldn't fit between the blocks? please tell me your sources. erosion alone over 5 years can open a space that large.

dumbass.

You must be smart. Obvious and easy to align things, really? Any architect or engineer would tell you how difficult it is to align things precisely. Add on to the fact that they were aligning things to the stars, and it becomes an entirely different matter.

Erosion was not a factor until recently, really. The outer casing stone was a highly durable polished stone, which was stripped and stolen many years ago. Once that was gone, it revealed the inside of the pyramid, which was not meant to be exposed. That is the only reason it looks so weathered.

Go do more critical reading and thinking about these topics before you post mindless, insulting things.

You are saying that they are aligned with the true north, I am telling you that two points will always make a line. But that's just because I'm being an asshole. My absolute, biggest problem with all of these CT's is that they basically diminish any and all work that the original, HUMAN, designers and builders put into it. They were every bit as smart as we are now, just not as advanced. But what they did know and know very well was stone, geometry, and astronomy.

So don't tell me a fucking alien did it.

Did I say an alien did it? I'm saying that I don't believe it was made how History and Egyptologists generally claim it was built. Who the creator was I still consider a mystery.

Another point to make is the fact that they had gold plated jewelery. To create gold plated things, we use chemical or electrochemical plating to achieve this. There is no other way known to get gold that thin.

And as for you claiming two points always being aligned... I think you are misunderstand. It's not just the point, it's the whole side of the pyramid. The pyramid is technically 8-sided, but that's just to show the solstices. If you consider just the 4 main sides as they normally look almost every day of the year, the northern side is almost directly perpendicular to true north. This did not happen by coincidence, this isn't two points being aligned, this is the whole side, and all sides for that matter, being aligned like a compass.

My point is, history lacks evidence for many, many things. We have some evidence that is contrary to what we have written in history. I just want it known that we have to consider the actual facts we know, and simply go from there. How far it may take us depends on the other facts we can find. Obviously people will speculate, but you have to sometimes take what people say with a grain of salt. There may be truths and facts somewhere, so you have pick apart what people say and what you read and sometimes do your own research.

Do you think it was an ice age that caused these people to leave? I can't think of another reason why the planet would be abandoned. And if there were such a society, wouldn't they have extensively mined the planet over a very long period, much longer than we have done? I'm thinking we should have a lot fewer mineral deposits than we do if that were true.

There is good evidence that ancient peoples understood magnetism, trigonometry, electricity, optics, cartography, astronomy, and loads of highly technical things. So I'm not shooting down your theory, it's the first time I've seen someone say that an ancient society actually left the planet so I'm thinking aloud.

If they were like us they would've mined the planet. If they considered 'natural resources' differently, perhaps they did not. Or maybe they did, and we are lucky to have what little is left. Maybe still, perhaps they saw any mining or extraction from the Earth shitting where they eat, and relegated all mining and extraction to outer space as quickly as possible. Check out the monolith on Phobos, for instance.

This, again, speaks volumes to the notion of being able to see the lie, yet being extremely suspect about having any faith in the accuracy of the "truth." This is some serious wtf? stuff, which is why we all consider it worthy of, well, consideration.

The Pyramid of Giza contains a number of very important numbers (this I do believe): * Pi * The Golden Number * The Length of the Meter * The Length of the Cubit * The Speed of Light.

Man. I feel like an asshole for doing this, but these are the first one, two, and three websites that show up for my search for more info on this. Not saying it's bunk yet, but... Christ.

I'm not going to argue with you, because you made your mind and that's fine.

You clearly have too.

Now, let's all go play tetherball.

Ah. Got it. OK, today I learned that, by this logic, the moon landings were a hoax. I mean, did you actually GO to the moon and seeee the footprints they showed on the "History Channel"??

To be fair, you're right. Not the greatest bit of logic I've used, but in my defense...

I didn't think that mattered in this subreddit.

I guess the point I was trying to make was about the sources of information and the way they are presented. They are presented by crackpot authors in a show based on speculation, on what was once known as the "History Channel".

OK. This is the Internet. No one knows we're dogs! :D

Agreed. Good point to you, too. I hate what the "HC" has become. But that said, attacking the source doesn't necessarily automatically eliminate a hypothesis, no matter how absurd, as long as it's supported by FACTS. It seems funny to me that Redditors wet their pants over anything Carl Sagan, a man who said that the universe is STUFFED SILLY with life, and yet, the idea that other, more advanced civilizations have visited us and shared knowledge with us is automatically stupid, just because it's said on a channel that's lost its way by a guy with really bad hair mousse-ing skills. :)

It makes me wonder... Would saying the same thing, but this time in a prestigious archaeological journal, carry more weight? It shouldn't. After watching that Ancient Aliens episode, I immediately went to the Internet and began looking things up to confirm them. True thinkers shouldn't automatically assume just because something's on the Internet, it's automatically true--OR false. The fact is that Puma Punku is inexplicable in many important ways. For instance, the H-shaped blocks that "stack" together. We don't really see this anywhere else, do we? To me, I agree with the OP's point that Stonehenge is better explained than THIS. And so on and so forth...

Keep reading... and wondering... Cheers

Agreed, well put sir!

You don't get it, do you?

You made your mind and you don't want to listen or read anything else.

European Cathedrals are so perfect and well done that we would have trouble doing it right now, and for sure we won't waste our time, we would find a simpler solution... because doing it like they did it would be way too expensive and time consuming.

Why in the right mind will think that something like that can be achieved with pre-industrial age tools by people that - supposedly - didn't yet discover the toilet?

The problem is that the mainstream archeology doesn't look at anything that doesn't fit with the official story. Also, there is not just one cathedral, it's a lot of them, each more glorious than the next.

The temples are made like....the hand of a God reached down and created them.

Open your mind and study for yourself.

I know where you come from. I agree that we don't make anything anymore to last. Just look at a Singer sewing machine from 100 years ago and one made today. The first one is art, the second one is just a temporary tool. The difference between your argument and mine is that the cathedrals in Europe (by the way, I'm a Romanian), are made in the same way we build today (which makes sense). We stack small bricks on top of each other and end up with whatever shape we want. The ancient megalithic structures are different. The civilization that built those, made the whole structure from a single boulder and moved it over hundreds of miles! Probably that way was easier for them than to just move small bricks and stack them on top of each other?

I have access to all kinds of tools and trucks and I'm asking you and some of my friends to come in the weekend and help me build a pizza oven in my back yard. My idea of building it is to go to a quarry and find a big boulder, carve it to be a nice pizza oven, put it on a truck and bring it home. I bet you all would say, "are you crazy? let's just bring rocks and make a pizza oven at home"!

You seem to be imagining a world that functions like ours.

The Pre-Colombian civilizations may have had many similar trappings of modern society, though they were anything but.

Your same argument against a reality where the Inca or Egyptians could have accomplished what they did with what they had, where they had, when they had, could be put against any pre-modern achievment.

Stonehenge (and other 'henges'), The Egyptian Pyramids. The Temples of Jerusalem, many ancient settlements of Iran and Turkey, effigy mounds in North America, numerous sites in Ethiopia and much much more were accomplished long ago, before modern metallurgy and materials science, before Europeans even thought to put up the first bell tower, let alone a cathedral.

You are trying to draw parallels between your moder life and the lives of these peoples.

You say things about "my friends" and "a pizza oven."

What if that "pizza oven" was a temple?

What if that "pizza oven" were a university?

What if that "pizza oven" were a monument?

What if that "construction job" were more than just an "I want" and more of a "God told us to."

When humans band together for a common cause, they can accomplish tremendous things.

A modern example would be the Manhattan Project.

Another modern example would be the Hoover Dam.

Another would be the Panama Canal.

All were said to be "impossible" to accomplish by humans, just as you have tried to claim for the accomplishments of humans that didn't have the "benefit" of European society and Arabic sciences.

Your Eurocentrism is showing.

Please, explain to me, why would you make a structure from 100 ton blocks when you could make the same structure from 100 pounds rocks and this would be easier on the workers (even if slaves) and you would have much more freedom to what the structure would look like when is done? Now if it's easy for you to move 100 ton blocks, then yes, that makes sense, but we don't know the technology or machinery they used to cut and move those to make it easier than moving bricks size blocks.

Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, are make from concrete and not 100 ton blocks that fit together better than Lego pieces.

Please watch this video, you will see a wall made by Inca and left overs work from an unknown civilization. Inca built just like we expect our ancestors would.

Sir, with all due respect, you are a fucking idiot.

Just a thought...

You are a student in engineering. You go to school for a long time learning lots of advanced physics and such. Perhaps you also take architecture, and learn about steel, and modern construction. Maybe you have worked construction as well, and know how to operate a crane. You are clearly more advanced than someone from hundreds or thousands of years ago.

But do you know how to forge a sword, or tools in a blacksmith shop? Would you know how to expertly carve stone? Have you spent a lifetime practicing and perfecting it, building upon your forefathers skills in the same trade? Of course not. With what they were working with, they were far more advanced than you are as a modern engineering student.

No one takes classes now to learn how to operate an old power mac OS, that doesn't mean by being an expert windows programmer you would know everything, or anything about that OS.

Just think about it, tone back the arrogant egoism that is our modern selves and reliance on advanced tech. Step back and use some imagination, people back then I would argue, could and did figure those things out on their own.

LOL.

My post was just a rewording of the post by e1ioan above it swapping out one set of terms for another.

Go and re-read the exchange and then come back and re-think your comment.

P.S. You just had to have a joke explained to you.

yea well maybe I hit reply under the wrong comment? Ever think of that?? eh!?

lol, sorry. I'm in a lecture, didn't read the whole thread carefully.

yea well maybe I hit reply under the wrong comment? Ever think of that?? eh!?

Well...at first I did.

Then I just kind of went with it.

You made your mind and you don't want to listen or read anything else.

Pot calling the kettle black.

Edit: My bad, I couldn't tell you were quoting him.

And they did it without handwriting.

Though, they did have macrame-type things that have been demonstrated to be basically like emails (I'm serious, it was fascinating), where the knots tied in string = a message.

Machu Pichu was an agricultural research station, not a fortress.

This changes everything

Yeah, well try invading it and then tell me that.

Because agricultural resource facilities are never fortresses, right?

I see it as more of a.... country club. Plenty of fresh food and water. Places to work on your putting. Great view..

Hey everybody, lets carry these 60 tonne stones up these mountains and make a resort!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KUbflnMEs

Nice

Lol, are you responsible for choosing which programs are aired on the history channel?

Occam's Razor. There's not a shred of evidence of advanced technology from these eras; why do you have such a low opinion of human beings that you don't think they could figure out how to build this stuff with tolls made of wood and stone and cleverness and will?

People that don't believe are arrogant. Plain and simple. There are galaxies BILLIONS of years older than ours. To think it's just us is ridiculous. I'm with you 100%. I'm an Anthropology major and if I hear the words, "We just don't know." one more time..... Everything makes sense when you add an intergalactic element to it. My dream is to be featured as an expert on an Ancient Alien program!

If you're spending your time thinking about non-human entities, you're not doing a very good job at that "Anthropology" thing, dude

Trying to discover the origins of our species...I'd say yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. "Dude."

the origins of our species

That is not the purview of Anthropology, though.

Anthropology is a behavioral science, not a biological science that can be used to derive human ancestry from.

"Dude."

Intergalactic Anthro? Galaxies billions of years older... why not? But you lost me at your sn. I saw They Live, which was great, but a little originality with the Anunnaki thing, please.

Intergalactic Anthro?

Anthro is, by the very nature of the subject, Earth bound.

Galaxies billions of years older... why not?

Huh? What do you mean?

lost me at your sn

What does this even mean?

Maybe you should take a physics class or two to see what it would take to travel from one galaxy to another.

Because our physics is the end-all be-all rules of the universe. Ridiculous notion, and the attitude of infallibility that makes us susceptible to fucking up.

Exactly. I'm no physics professor, but I'd be willing to bet that we know so little about the how physics actually works. Thinking that the universe can solely operate by the natural laws we perceive is foolish.

Nobody said physics was infallible but even if there are hugely advanced civilizations in other galaxies it doesn't mean they are able to travel the massive distance to ours. Physics may not be perfect but it can teach you a hell of a lot more about our universe than anthropology.

Wrong argument. They would just counter their (alien) knowledge of physics is greater. Physics is an ongoing science. Know what I am implying?

That every conspiracy theorist has a go-to cop out argument?

Yes

"Everything makes sense when you add an intergalactic element to it."

Sense is not science. As an Anthropology major you should know that.

Well first of all as evident by Gobekli Tepe. Civilization is much older than previous thought. Yes that's right by hunter and gatherers of primitive men 7000 years before the pyramids of Egypt. It also shows it was religion, and not agriculture that drove civilization together first. Ag came after the religious temples, and their cities dwelling were formed first by hunter dwellers.

They also demonstrated at Gobekli that it feasible to move huge a stone sculpture over vast distances by manpower. However it never ceases to amaze me that always animals such as horses, ox and elephants are never associated with moving such heavy stones. I'm pretty positive that they learned 12000 years ago to harness animal power. As did Egyptian and other older civilizations.

Ancient Archeology has also found writings detailing the use of cranes by the ancient Greeks and Romans which by testing today has demonstrated that massive stones can be lifted.

The problem with so many discounting the ingenuity of men, and associating that an elaborate help such as aliens is fraught with sheer speculation and interpretation of art such as hieroglyphics, and not proven testing. Ancient man did not spend his time in front of computer, TV, School rooms of today. Instead they ate in the morning, practiced what ever religious art, and began the rest of the day slaving over back breaking work. In order to have a cultural cohesiveness in developing their values and mores. This is what was brought on by priests, and kings with higher education, and thought process than your average grunt worker. These educated men developed math in their head, writing systems, and basically sat all day watching the stars, or how animals moved for flight, and how to improve on such. They also, like us today, sat around how to make life easier that living in the cave. They had plenty of time to do so as there was not much else to do except pray to gods, war and find food.

If aliens did come, and we ever see such today. Why is it they landed so long ago, gave technology, and then abandon helping? So many ways to shoot holes in such a theorem. Please give our ancestors some credit. They did not just sit around all day scratching their balls and beating their war clubs.

I don't think you will find any archaeologist declare their science perfect. It is a long ongoing process of research and new questions pop up everyday.

Dude don't forget coral castle! Its not ancient though but just as mysterious

Yah, that guy claimed to have unlocked the secret of the pyramids. He moved!!!! the whole construction overnight, and wouldn't let anyone watch how he did it.

too bad his lover didnt come back lol

There is actually quite a bit of speculation that his lover or "sweet sixteen" is actually a mathematical concept rather than a human that he loved.

whoa really?

Yup. If I can find you some links I will send them your way.

the elite posses all this lost technology, would they want us to know about these ancient civilizations and their technology and stop buy their gasoline? I don't think so.

"It seems crazy that primitive human beings could have done this."

This is a fallacy. Just because they lived some thousands years before Jesus and Edison doesn't mean that they were primitive.

Personally I believe in aliens somewhere in the Universe, but so far I have seen no convincing evidence that they have been visiting us yet.

I'm not generally against the idea of ancient aliens intervening in some way, but here is where the theory falls apart for me. AA believers want to attribute too much stuff to aliens.

Like we can't figure out how the pyramids were built. Maybe aliens helped! Okay, I see where you're going with that.

But then here's the problem. Then people start guessing they built Stonehenge too. Then it's Atlantis. Then it's they genetically created man and gave us language. Then they created the Great Wall of China. Then you find out Aliens are what the Mayans were really worshiping along with the folks on Easter Island.

Then aliens also helped the founding fathers form the United States too! And the list keeps going on and on until it's like humans must have done NOTHING! It's almost like the whole planet was ran by aliens and that it's the HUMANS that showed up later having contributed nothing and just took it all over.

Obviously, even if we can't figure out how, humans had to do some of this stuff. If not the whole alien mystery thing goes away. If aliens did all that stuff then aliens intervention must have been pretty common and happening all the time. Then we're to believe they just left leaving no tools behind and all the humans forgot about it?

But then when you realize that archaeologists have found ancient HUMAN tools we have a problem. If aliens built all this stuff, what's with the human tools laying around all over? Obviously aliens did not build all this stuff that AA people like to claim.

AA people are just using it as a god of the gaps. How were the pyramids built? Don't know, must have been aliens!

EDIT: Also, to add I watched a guy give a talk, where he says, that we have to be careful. We think the religious people had a narrow view of reality. However, modern day technology has only been around a short time. We may be making a mistake. We might actually be the ones that have a narrow view. In our day with Star Trek and what not, technology might simply be what we're trying to explain our reality with.

That's just how we seek to solve problems. Anything that can't be explained must be a technological spaceship with aliens inside. But that the actual truth could be much more complex than that.

i think this may be the most stupid thing i've ever seen posted in this subreddit.

Nice

whoa really?

You must be smart. Obvious and easy to align things, really? Any architect or engineer would tell you how difficult it is to align things precisely. Add on to the fact that they were aligning things to the stars, and it becomes an entirely different matter.

Erosion was not a factor until recently, really. The outer casing stone was a highly durable polished stone, which was stripped and stolen many years ago. Once that was gone, it revealed the inside of the pyramid, which was not meant to be exposed. That is the only reason it looks so weathered.

Go do more critical reading and thinking about these topics before you post mindless, insulting things.