The bible doesn't make sense. Why would god let satan have so much power? Why does the bible contradict itself so often? Why would a god have a race of people that he calls his own? Why would a god powerful enough to wish a universe into existence need to be worshiped by the tiny mortals that can't possibly understand him? Why is he a jealous god? Why would he let the majority of the worlds population go to hell? Why would he let hell exist at all?

I could go on forever, but my point is that coming to the conclusion that it seems most evil in the world is coming from a single source could be correct and is fascinating, but isn't enough evidence to declare the bible as the answer and overcome and all the inaccuracies, contradictions and fallacies.

what if they weren't fallacies, but intentional misunderstandings by a fallen world that didn't want to hear the truth because they loved the darkness of their own self serving hearts? What if someone could sit down and explain away all the supposed contradictions? have you tried reading it for yourself without trusting the same world that brought you Jersey Shore? Do you have any reason to believe ? do you want to be delivered from sin, or do you think you are completely good? im being genuine in my questions? I'm not a good person myself, I need God.

what if they weren't fallacies, but intentional misunderstandings by a fallen world that didn't want to hear the truth because they loved the darkness of their own self serving hearts? What if someone could sit down and explain away all the supposed contradictions?

Occam's razor, bro.

have you read it for yourself

Yes, my undergraduate degree minor was religion, focused on Christianity.

Satan

Is a mistranslation of the hebrew phrase 'ha satan', which means 'the accuser' or looser, 'the dude'. There is no satan in the old testament except for the one injected by later Christian authors.

Seriously, I like your theory, but when you start forcing everything into the Christian worldview you are really closing your mind to other possibilities. Unless you think the entirety of science is in on the conspiracy. In which case I guess I am part of the conspiracy too, because I trust and use science.

Anyway. I guess my main question is how do you compensate for the total inability of the bible to accurately describe reality?

Evil exists because of Satan etc

It is my suggestion that you spend some time considering dualism and how damaging a worldview it is. Dualism assumes there is a B for every A and so on - it is probably the first philosophical viewpoint a person takes, but it is probably wrong.

Our perception of nature is the only thing creating evil. Not to say evil is not something to be avoided - good can be and is a great goal. I just think blaming evil on the presence of a pseudo-mythical being falls short of the goal of fighting evil.

Really I think that the Christian worldview supplies it adherents with a security blanket, and the promise that in the afterlife Good will triumph.

Our perception of nature is the only thing creating evil. Not to say evil is not something to be avoided - good can be and is a great goal. I just think blaming evil on the presence of a pseudo-mythical being falls short of the goal of fighting evil.

More importantly, blaming Good and Evil on external sentient entities is a way of helping people to eject from their core any personal responsibility for their success or failure. In this way, you make your marks totally dependent on the religion. And you use peer pressure to keep them in line and tithing.

Religion is possibly the most effective business on the planet, precisely because of it's psychological rooting and subversion. This is also why the military breaks you down, and then builds you back up the way they want you to think, sleep, and react. it stems from the need for reliable, predictable foot soldiers to do bidding for the ruling class.

More importantly, the concepts of 'Good' and 'Evil' are pretty much entirely subjective.

Babies. Good thing, right? What if that baby's the Anti-Christ? Or the next Stalin or serial killer? What if the baby has a horrible birth defect where it will spend every second of its short life in agony?

Murder. Evil thing, right? What about in a time of war - if that other guy was going to shoot you first or one of your friends or a stranger? What if that guy was an 8 year old Congolese child soldier? Not murder then, right? You did the right thing. The Good thing.

It's about perception. Good things do come out of Bad and Bad things do come out of Good.

Give a homeless guy on the street $50 and maybe that's the impetus he needs to turn his life around.

Or maybe it's exactly how much he needed to buy that fatal overdose.

Good and Evil are subjective and you can't always know all the ramifications of your actions.

God doesn't exist and neither does the Devil.

Only us and our choices and the ripples our choices make.

Soldiers were prominent in the New Testament as agents who punished evil-doers, ensuring submission to authority and the common good.

~ That's just something I recalled reading once - I don't know anything about this.

do you want to be delivered from sin, or do you think you are completely good?

This is troubling because we need to define what sin is, then we need to define what good is.

Does a person need a god to be good? Or can a person just be good? Given the breadth of religion on this earth, and the presence of atheist do-gooders, I have to argue that good is not based on god, nor is god required for good.

You feel a struggle against sin. I call that having manners, being polite, and genuinely caring for others. I don't need a god to enforce these rules for me, because I realize that good done toward others results in good done toward me.

I need God.

I disagree. I think you want God.

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or so-called Christians who are hypocrites. You know what a "real" Christian

This kind of leans towards thet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman fallacy.

Also plenty of religious zealots have done horrible things in the name of faith. Though I won't generalize their actions to all religious people.

amen brother.

would it make a difference if they turned out not to be contradictions though. Here is your answer, though i doubt it will make a difference if you have already decided it must be wrong.

Here is your answer, though i doubt it will make a difference if you have already decided it must be wrong

The same can be said about you. I could show you centuries of scientific evidence that contradicts the bible but you've already decided that there is a god and he talks directly to you.

Precisely.

God is real because the Bible says he's real. The Bible is true because the Bible says its true.

But what about all those other books of the Bible that got left out or taken out in the editing process?

http://www.cracked.com/article_18948_5-real-deleted-bible-scenes-in-which-jesus-kicks-some-ass.html

Yeah, isn't the Bible just a game of telephone?

I'm not a good person myself, I need God.

Apparently you need some sort of crutch. God does not exist (I have more proof of this than you do) and does not effect your life. What you are talking about is the placebo effect. You think you're not a good person, but with this ominous being overseeing you suddenly you've become a good person.

In the end it's good because it's proven that without any existence of God you can be a good person, so you actually are, in fact, a good person.

The Bible, I've found, makes a lot more sense when you consider that the Old Testament God LOST the War In Heaven and was cast into Hell by the victors.

This, of course, lends more credence to the concept that the Bible was written and edited and redacted by MEN, and is not, in fact, the infallible word of God.

Well if you were to believe in such a thing, and then think about all the harm that one little book has done to the world, it certainly makes sense that it was written by Satan and/or people who believed they had 'talked to God'.

Can you explain this a bit more please.

This is a Gnostic version of the Gospel. You flip the Bible upside down and Lucifer is God, and YHWH becomes a controlling deity who didn't want man to be aware of sacred knowledge.

This is foolishness, but unfortunately, many subscribe to such teachings.

Is this Gnosticism/Demiurge type of stuff or are you actually saying that OT God is Satan?

satan started out as a follower of god. and remember, the bible was written by man. not onlyw as it written by man but it has been changed to suit societal needs for that time. there have been many books taken out of the bible. religion is about your connection with whatever you think god is. thats why i consider myself spiritual.

I am a guy from Romania. In my country, the people who speak about NWO and freemasons are the underground rappers. As opposed to the atheistic Alex Jones followers, our underground rappers stress the importance of keeping your faith and reading the bible.

Interesting, I'd love to see some artists talk about those topics more publicly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBBiuhP-YaM example of artists. As you may not understand the lyrics, the video will make you understand what it's about.

Interesting stuff thanks for sharing that with us.

Can you please give use more links/videos/artist. I'd love to support this.

Edit: particularly artist rapping about keeping faith and reading the bible. Also, translations would be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_qu3rEFcc

This is what all my brothers feel

Love in their souls from the Lord

This is what your brothers feel

Who have their souls dead from all the evil they've done

I haven't lived in the first century

But I still search Jesus's voice echo

Speaking about love to his brothers

Two millenia later I see bankers and politicians

Spreading fear and lack of faith within the citizenry

Two millenia later the sunrise is grey

And I feel like a driver in a rally

I bet that to many of you it's funny how

I don't have anything to do with being caged like a bird

For reform, we need great efforts

And nobody wants to do those efforts

They just pretend to do for the sake of norms

Romanians are scared of words, bombs, deviated

From their roads

It's as obvious as London's Tower: The EU and the puppets

Pur their gloves on when they cuff us

The doors are closing, what can we open them with

When we are afraid of others and ourselves?

Fear consumes you when you gather hate in your head

Fault avenges you in the oportune moment

They will enslave you for a pathetic amount of money

When they'll impose a shitty culture on our people

And you can have the meal together, bon apetit, you vegetable!

Tell me, will it be love or fear?

When only love lifts you up

The rest are vices and ruin you

Cold or warm hands, baked or fresh bread

Tell me, brother, what do you choose between

Love is the most important from the natural states

But it's inhibed with all kinds of artificial interfaces

Which simulate warmth and the Sun's rays

The reflexion of light in the morning on the sea's water.

They make you fear that we'll be unable to live if we extinguish those artificial lights

But beyond them are stars which we have to reach

We have to give up on all types of rudimentary instincts

Which allow our enemies to control all our primary emotions

Cuz everything is dualistic, we'll save love from it's hedonistical abyss

And transform it into a weapon against the Antichrist

Cuz affiliation on new bases is the solution

If anyone says that we're breaking the law, then we'll change the constitution!

Tell me, will it be love or fear?

When only love lifts you up

The rest are vices and ruin you

Cold or warm hands, baked or fresh bread

Tell me, brother, what do you choose between

Love or fear?

This involves complex emotions for both sexes

Christian consciousness with fear of

Him who created us out of universal love,

And stardust, the Mason

And man made his fall, his sleep

Expulsed from the Garden of Eden by our Lord

Evil and good, the free referee

Your moral freedom, salvation, you know

In your way only gold idols, oxes,

Cults, disciples, you name it

The masons control the mechanism of superstition

Babylonian kings are in our traditions

The old testament - pretty coherent

The law, the decalogue, the escape from Egypt

Lex talionis and Moses

And eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

The new testament - perfectly written

The law of love, the laws of being

The gentleness of your gaze and noble thoughts

He comes from Nazareth, the hope of mankind

Jesus Christ, love, fear, distance

Jesus Christ, love, fear, enstrangement

From the Father God, born not made

And revived from the dead, stepping on death!

Tell me, will it be love or fear?

When only love lifts you up

The rest are vices and ruin you

Cold or warm hands, baked or fresh bread

Tell me, brother, what do you choose between

Bizzle exposes Jay-Z Destiny Lab expose the New Age

Chris Geo - Free this town (Inversion of illuminatists jay z, rihanna and kanye's run this town)

Alex Jones regularly rails against aetheists on his show and talks about his faith and views on God often. I find it pretty offensive that people who already consider themselves marginalized would exclude further possible listeners/members of the movement.

Then they are good little pets.

I can understand why you'd prejudge them as "good little pets" if you're from the US, you might generalize all Christians as the Christians from America's religious right. But we are Orthodox Christians, distinct from Catholics or Protestants. We have differences in dogma - major differences.

Can you please give use more links/videos/artist. I'd love to support this.

Honest question. Why is it important that you be defined by a set of principals? Couldn't you live by and abide those principals without the need to be labeled as such?

I live by a well defined code, but it serves nothing but a sense of vanity to project that as a format for others to aspire to.

Another honest question. Do you believe in evil as a tangible, supernatural force?

Because it's easier to say I'm an Orthodox Christian than to lay out to you all the principles I abide to. :) Also, people interpret everything differently, so if I consider myself an Orthodox Christian, it doesn't mean I have the exact, same beliefs like other people who label themselves the same. Also, about my belief... It's more in a metaphorical than a personal God. No, I don't believe that there's an invisible bearded man watching and judging us. I don't even believe Jesus was anything more than a highly-enlighted individual. The "miracles" and stuff - well, the Bible was written almost 2000 years ago, you had to captivate the people's imagination from that time with some metaphorical exagerration. Nobody would've listen to you preaching about love otherwise. And no, I don't believe evil is a tangible, supernatural force - I consider evil part of the duality of our mind which represents FEAR, the other being the divine, which represents simply LOVE.

Also, I just want to say that I don't "hate fags". I think homosexuality is a sin, yet stealing or having sex outside of mariage are sins too, yet we don't stake people for it. I love everyone. We all sin and I don't think I have the authority to judge who's victimless sin is worse, that's for God to decide.

Very interesting, and understandable up to this point:

I think homosexuality is a sin

Do you deny the current scientific general consencious that homosexuality is determined very early in a fetus' development (early uterine environment)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Cause

Or do you consider genetic disposition a sin?

The rest of everything you said sounded very Buddhist actually, and much closer to a progressive Agnostic Theist than any form of doctrinal monotheistic religion that's out there.

Nobody would've listen to you preaching about love otherwise.

And i have to disagree with this also. A desire to love and be loved and appreciated is genetically built into all animals. It's one of the simplest physical traits we have to help us survive our infant phase, and well understood in genetics. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_love

You don't have to lie to people to make them feel a desire for love or to teach them how to love more appropriately.

I agree with your comment mostly about the interpretation of labels and how your personal spiritual experience will never be summed up in a title so that I may fully understand or experience it for myself. I think the more people put that truth at the front of their minds when they discuss these ideas with one another, the more accepting we will all be in our discussions.

That's the one thing I've never understood about religions that cast fear and judgment on to individuals for certain behaviours. Buddhism for example, has a set of behaviours it recommends and a set is discourages, but no where in the doctrine does it threaten it's students with a threat of violence, like a hell. It's understood that we are animals striving to be as loving and universally moral as possible, but utilizing fear as a method of shaping behaviour is as 'sinful' as threatening a child with a beating for failure to comply with a certain code.

That is the primary reason I have no hope for an indoctrinated religious sects who partake in that methodology.

Just as you feel it was necessary to stretch the truth to intrest people thousands of yeas ago, it would also apear that many believed it was justifiable to lie about 'eternal suffering' and the like to have them fear non compliance with a set of rules.

This is social engineering, not the 'word of god'

God doesn't need to threaten you to make you into a better person. He has far more impressive tools at his disposal than something so barbaric.

At least, that's my world view.

Sorry for the late reply.

Do you deny the current scientific general consencious that homosexuality is determined very early in a fetus' development (early uterine environment)?

Yes, I vehemently deny the current scientific consensus that homosexuality is determined before birth. I believe homosexuality is caused by various environmental and psyhological factors. Just remember that "current scientific consensus" does NOT mean "fact". A few decades ago, it was current scientific consensus that homosexuals were mentally insane and that they should be lobotomized. Science isn't nailed in stone, it's subjected to changes and new discoveries. If every consensus was nailed in stone and not subjected to possible future changes, then it wouldn't be science anymore.

And i have to disagree with this also. A desire to love and be loved and appreciated is genetically built into all animals.

I'm talking about universal love, not just about loving your neighbor but also about loving the person who stole everything from you. What I meant in my post to you was that if you told a person from that time, in that period, that you can cure lepers and restore sight to blind people, then you'd have the credibility necessary for them to actually come and listen to your message. The Bible makes use of "the ends justify the means".

And regarding your, if you don't mind my saying so, misconception about God's word: the Old Testament used fear to make the people of its time behave like... Well, people. Think about the context please: it's a 4000 year old collection of writings. How do you think you can reach the hearts of the people of those times? Not by telling them to love their neighbor. I can tell you haven't actually read the Bible, just random passages. Otherwise you'd know that the New Testament preaches only love and has nothing to do with threats of violence. Threats of violence are what people from a culture that lived 4000 ago needed to stop being douchebags. 2000 years later and up until the present moment, Jesus knew we're ready to love God, instead of fearing Him. And that's exactly what he preached. Love God and all His creations. You say my system of belief resembles Buddhist values. I say that's somewhat true, because the New Testament is similar in its message to Buddhism (but not exactly the same thing).

Another thing: Orthodoxy holds the Bible as authoritative, not as infallible. As an analogy, the Bible for man is like a parent for a kid: he's authoritative over the kid's life, but it doesn't mean that he isn't ever wrong. If you're asking yourself why we don't believe that it's infallible like Catholics and Protestants, that's because we do recognize that it went through a lot of translations over the centuries and what we read today in it may not be 100% the word of God.

Ok, very interesting.

One other question, What level of scientific data would be sufficient to change a religiously based belief you hold?

For example, a few hundred years ago, if someone had purposed flying to the moon many would have related the authoritative tale of the tower of Babel as reason to not pursue that course. We've since landed a few men there and if anything we all rally around the achievement as one of humanities more 'humane' endeavors.

When you say stuff like:

I vehemently deny the current scientific consensus...

yet you offer up no reason for that denial other than "Science has been wrong before" I see someone who is plugging their ears to the modern reality for the sake of towing an indoctrinated opinion given by a religious organization.

What would be equivalent to men walking on the moon for you to accept that much of our behavior is predetermined by our genetic make-up?

yet you offer up no reason for that denial other than "Science has been wrong before" I see someone who is plugging their ears to the modern reality for the sake of towing an indoctrinated opinion given by a religious organization.

In your previous post, you said that homosexual-before-birth is a current consensus. Now you call it a "modern reality". These aren't synonyms. I've been an atheist since my early teens up until about two years ago (I'm 23 now) so I'm familiarized with calling religious people indoctrinated and in denial about science, but now when I see people taking a consensus and changing it into a reality w/o realizing iit, well, now that screams "ear plug" really loud.

Oh yeah, and the tale of Babel isn't about not being allowed to explore the sky and outer space. The tale of Babel is about not being allowed to force your way into Heaven. Don't take the Bible so literally like evangelists. Interpreting stories like the Tower of Babel literally is what brought upon humanity the Dark Ages. Which brings us to this:

What would be equivalent to men walking on the moon for you to accept that much of our behavior is predetermined by our genetic make-up?

I feel that when science doesn't really have an answer to an issue (momentarily), it uses the genetic make-up card. But it's understandable, it's easy to mistake environment with genetic make-up, since environment usually means family. For example, someone with a personality disorder might have a kid. That kid will unfortunately get the disorder too. The doctor will say "well, if the mom had the disorder, it means the kid inherited it genetically". But isn't it more logical that since the kid grew up with a borderline mother, he'll learn to have the disorder too?

That doesn't seem logical at all. You're saying that so long as there's a nurtured element to a behavior it can be explained without factoring in nature. Or that a persons nature is simple nothing more than a choice passed down from a parent. Or more specifically, that somehow having bad parents and their genetic dispositions equals a person choosing to behave a certain way. Question, are there any addictive personality traits in your family that you've inherited? It would help you understand what a genetic disposition actually entails.

I don't know how detailed you understanding of biology is but you should at least understand that DNA isn't like a suggestion you can either succumb to or rewrite as you choose. It determines things like skin color, sex, cognitive ability, and as far as all of our science can determine, the process of sexual arousal. Science on aggregate doesn't suggest that homosexuality is determined in utero because they think is sounds nice. That determination is the direct result of tens of thousands of man hours of study and experimentation at the highest levels of balanced human cognition. I don't understand how you're able to dismiss that. Where is the logic? What exactly is it that makes you disbelieve in science? Is it anything more than faith or your own passive judgment?

Keep in mind, your essentially saying that a well understood behavior which has been studied in hundreds of animal species on the planet is somehow 'unnatural'. Really?

I don't disbelieve science, nor did I say that. Why are you putting words into my mouth? I just disbelieved the current tennant of science which blames genetics on way too many things and issues. That's ALL. Why are you generalizing me as disbeliever of science for simply disbelieving one out of millions of scientific theories? THAT's illogical bro. And narrow, like any other generalization.

Also, I never said homosexuality is "unnatural". Putting words into my mouth again? I simply said it's sinful. Sinful != unnatural. They are NOT, by any means, synonyms. For example, lust is also a sin but it's clearly natural. Told you 1000 times, you're not talking to a southern Evangelist here, so don't put their words in my mouth. It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself that I'm illogical simply because I have faith.

K, what is a sin?

...I'm illogical simply because I have faith.

Also, faith in what? Faith in general can be a very positive trait, but without saying what in you sound like a diluted southern evangelist. Just so you know. If you have faith in anything that there is no evidence for then yes, that would be extremely illogical.

Logic for reference. belief or faith in an untraceable subject is by definition illogical. Faith and logic are mutually exclusive.

The fact that you're getting downvoted because of the atheists on this forum is sad.

Then again, the atheists on these forums are some of the most intolerable i've seen.

Actually today they've been lovely. I have unpopular views and I'm used to being attacked for them, in the real world as well as online, but today only one downvote. :)

the actual truth is very un-popular here. i have 25 years of research into these topics and you are spot on in your assessment. thanks for having the testicular fortitude to write it out.

Very well said. I could not agree more.

I've only researched into this for about 6 months (every single night, my gf is pissed) and realized that something mind-numbingly sinister is going on.

Just trust your instincts, have a healthy dose of skepticism, and don't trust media, Alex Jones and C2C included!

For me it started with researching UFOs, went passed the disinformation of UFOs = aliens (UFOs are shape shifting entities. Please check out John Keel's 'Operation Trojan Horse'), got into psychonautics, the use of entheogens, and how early occultist's used it to get closer with demonic entities.

This lead me down the path of occult practice, the illuminati, their involvement in the music and movie industry, re-examining 9/11 (it was a mass human sacrifice ritual)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tower_(Tarot_card)

and am now looking at religious texts (The Bible, Q'uran) for some more clues.

FYI, I do not consider myself religious at all. But the research is swaying me towards esoteric texts, particularly the Book of Enoch, which was left out of the Bible, for obvious reasons (full on discussions about the fallen ones, or the nephilim, and their descendants, the Rephaim).

And FYI, the Christian faith has been utterly infiltrated by Luciferians/Satanists for centuries by the occult's.

I would read both Qu'ran and the Bible to get some notion with what we're up against.

EDIT: Operation Trojan Horse PDF (John Keel's research on UFOs concludes that UFOs have to do with demonology)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45380396/John%20Keel/Operation%20Trojan%20Horse%20-%20John%20Keel.pdf

Man you will love this. Fallen angels and the new world order on youtube - explores the ufo and fallen angel theory, with relevance to the books of enoch and jasher.

Chris White's youtube

77 part series exploring the origins of the mystery babylon religions and illuminism and their relevance today.

you're right about the infiltration of christianity by the way. of course satan would target the church. modern christinaity is so full of new agers, catholic mystics, false prophets and downright scammers that its hard to know where to turn. however if you research the history of the bible, you will see the true word was opposed by the vatican and jesuits for centuries. during the catholic enforced dark ages, being caught with the bible meant a death sentence.

i wish you the best in your search for truth. the links ive sent you are by excellent well researched filmmakers imo, and you would do well to look into their bolder claims. all the best

OH OH and BILL COOPER on ufos!, his later stuff, when he came to the real truth

The best part of my research was that I came to the conclusion that UFOs are not aliens, but 'inter-dimensional entities' (i say this instead of demons because the moment you say demon people tune out) through reading UFO witness testimonies. NUFORC and waterufo.net are great resources. I also viewed a ridiculous amount of youtube videos with amateur footage of UFOs. Sooner or later you start noticing patterns. And I'm viewing videos that get about 300 views only. Most of the popular UFO videos are fakes on youtube.

The best part was when i stumbled upon Jacques Vallee after I came to my own conclusion, whom insinuates that these entities are 'malevolent' and shape shift. They are what we call gnomes, fairies, dragons, elves of the past. Today we call them UFOs, or what pop culture wants us to believe as 'aliens' through predictive programming.

Also, I do believe that this whole H.A.A.R.P deal is DISINFO. The way it's going around conspiracy blogs and 'leaked' documents show a similar pattern with how UFO disinformation is propagated.

My personal opinion on some 'natural disasters' such as tornadoes and earthquakes are created by these very same demonic entities. This is why I believe the Greco-Roman era worshiped the elementals. (There is some footage of UFOs being around 'natural' disasters such as the Tsunami in Japan

Another one from same 'natural disaster'

Just to add, I really like this graphic of the structure of the world. Not saying its 100% accurate, but some of it makes sense

http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/the_illuminati_elite_organization_n_plan.jpg

Yahweh worshiper conjures UFOs in front of television reporter(essentially demons) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNnllwGmUB8

There are some in /r/occult that have succeeded in conjuring UFO entities.

Here is a former occultist, Roger Morneau, who talks about joining a secret society, conjuring demons, etc. (still not 100% if this guy is legit or not, but as always, question the message, not the messenger)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3WdTFwk9j4

There is a full testimony on youtube that you can grab as well. It's about 3 hours long.

oh and thanks for those links. Going to watch it.

Vallee i think is a little misled but has some very valid stuff. Cooper talks a lot about aliens, i cant say ive listened to that stuff much. he used to be under the illusion that they were interplanetary as well then realised they wanted him to believe that, he was being used.

i was in the new age for a while and people in that are messing around a lot with spirits and aliens and that. so dangerous.

graphic seems legit. oh i shared this earlier, you might find this interesting, chuck missler and mark eastman exploring the ufo agenda and the new age propaganda alien channelings seem to be spewing, and how exactly it all fits together. highly recomended. you'll find it in a torrent or here. http://www.khouse.org/pages/special_events/alien_encounters/

thanks for the links brother. stay vigilant, and remember that christ gave those who accept it authority to do battle against the principalities and powers, against fallen angels and alien spirits, "whatever ye bind on earth shall be bound in heaven"

oh also could you search for "rael" in this thread and talk to the guy who is into that cult about what you know?

yep. don't forget to hit the theosophy movement (Bailey, Crowley, Blavatsky, etc.) and how it is the source of the New Age movement, which ties into the UFO deception; the history, origin, etc. of freemasonry and how it ties to the Black nobility and the Vatican. (the inter-relationships between the Vatican, UK, 'Merica and Israel and their origin from Rome back to Sumer and back to Atlantis); the ties that exist between Summerian cylinder seals and the early origins of Solar worship (lucifer worship) and the commiserate dates and gods that show the etymology of the mystery religions. i could go on and on and on.... i think i may need to get a girlfriend, i read entirely too much...

huzzah. girlfriend shmirlfriend, she'll only wreck your head and get you excited, better off preparing articles on this stuff for distribution on my website. hint hint.

whats your website url, i really enjoy your posts

Hi at the moment the website it less than i'd like it to be, its sort of in between. anyway, theres not a huge amount on it but its run by 3 of us, http://www.wearechange.ie/ theres better sites in the links section, cheers anyway!

thank you brother. the downvotes started not long after you wrote this.

Some guy on the internet has 25 years of "research"?! Oh shit, better throw out a centuries of scientific knowledge.

Science and belief in God are not mutually exclusive.

True. But I can guarantee that your research hasn't proven the existence of god.

The mystery is beautiful though, isn't it?

thanks, I also found it well written. I've had similar thoughts, and dismissed them as idealist and wishful thinking. I do think there is conservation of entropy, and that order from chaos is a matter of perspective.

No, he's getting downvoted because his claims are silly and easily falsified.

Consider the very first person he mentions... John Todd, who wrote text for those classic Jack Chick comics about rock music.

Have you ever read any of these? Do you really take them seriously?

And there's the narrative that "real" Christians are good, and non-Christians or "fake" Christians like Catholics are evil. And who are the real Christians? Why, the radical right wing!

In my mind, the radical right wing are the problem, not the solution.

And this obsession with Satanism! To start with, Aleister Crowley was not by any description a Satanist - he thought Satanism was as stupid as mainstream Christianity. I've done a lot of research on this, and in the last 100 years there are two types of Satanists - a bunch of affluent but definitely middle-tier people who like sex, power, money and drugs and basically concentrate on that (the La Vey school, so to speak), and a scattering of mentally deranged individuals who use "Satanism" as a name for their schizophrenia - there is simply no evidence that Satanism has ever been a force at any time in history.

You don't have to be an atheist to find this all very silly. Let's have some facts here, please.

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Good question!

But I believe that equating "Satan" and "Lucifer" is absolutely not correct, and I think most students of Western Mainstream Occultism would agree with me.

Satan is the adversary of God. Lucifer is the light-bringer. For example, in Greek myths, the role of Satan would be played by Hades, whereas the role of Lucifer would be played by Prometheus.

Much of Crowley's work is about the Holy Guardian Angel, which he identifies with Lucifer, but is IMHO a metaphor for man's overself (i.e., the jewel in the lotus). To interpret that work as discussing Satan or Satanism is flat-out wrong.

Satanism, as Crowley makes clear in... urg, Magick in Theory and Practice? I don't have all my books to hand - Satanism is defined simply by being in opposition to Christianity, it's the negative shadow of Christianity and thus not really a Great Force.

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You see, the entities of Lucifer and satan (and the other titles) are one and the same.

Well, as a Christian you necessarily lump together all non-Christian entities into one big black bag, but very few other scholars of this material do so, and I certainly don't.

In the most common interpretation amongst people who aren't doctrinary Christian, Satan is the adversary, the slanderer, the obstructor - the linguistics here are pretty good actually. He represents lies, cheating, theft, sloth, greed, all sorts of things we thing of as bad - or if you're a Freudian, "the id".

Lucifer, "light bringer", represents a whole different idea - which is a challenge to God - men like gods, man stealing the divine flame, pride, hubris, the superman, or the Freudian superego.

A Christian has a paintbox with two colors, black and white. God and his angels, cherubim and seraphim and various other servants are white, the fallen angels and worms and things are black.

It's a neat manichean duality, but a lot of us suspect there are not only shades of grey, but even colors...

This!

The real interesting thing about these flavors of modern protestantism is they are often rehashes of various gnostic sects earlier in the history of christianity. I find that especially interesting since you often find them mentioning gnosticism as part of what they percieve to be the fruition of evil in the world today.

Following the entire western narrative from just about the time of Socrates up until now is a lot of information to peruse, but it is truly telling. As we get near Plato and Aristotle we start to see this precursor for Christianity to unfold. And what is troubling is that people often interpret Christianity in a vaccum, and in some fictitous purist way.

Take the book of John for example. It is full of platonic philosophy, and yet we find that people frequently ignore this. They ignore the later influences of neoplatonism, the many gnostic cults, and the rather large amount of confusion of what was orthodox christianity in the early church.

For all we know the rise of christianity in the western world could have been some sort of a conspiracy in itself.

Sorry for the disorganized stream of crap I spit out. Your comment just got me thinking. I think that if one study christian history and philosophy, not just specific parts from specific off shoots, but all of it that everyone has to offer....you will surely find a confusing mess that really gives you no insight into what christianity really is in any pure form that people seem to speak of.

Let's be honest, christianity is really another footnote to Plato. And Catholicism a more aristotelian flavor of the same. Then you get your denominations and cults that really resemble various flavors of gnosticism and other neoplatonic religions.

And also consider that what is commonly considered orthodox today was seen as heretical by what would be considered mainstream about 100AD. RINSE and REPEAT, over and over for centuries now. It's really a big mess, and it has been used for genocide, slavery, and manipulation...on both large and small scales.

What is true Christianity? Those true christians the OP speaks of? I think they are genuinely good people who needed a way to explain life. But I don't think they are any more true to christianity than anyone else, because I don't think you can be true to christianity. There is no pure form of it.

"But I believe that equating "Satan" and "Lucifer" is absolutely not correct, and I think most students of Western Mainstream Occultism would agree with me.

Satan is the adversary of God. Lucifer is the light-bringer. For example, in Greek myths, the role of Satan would be played by Hades, whereas the role of Lucifer would be played by Prometheus."

This bit is interesting as well in a philosophical light when we consider Christian Fundies and the neoconservative movement.

The concept of Satan or I'd say The Adversary, is a theme in many ideologies as TomSwirly points out. Throughout the old testament it is used to unite the people(jews) against a common enemy and idea of evil. They kill, plunder, and grow under this ideology.

Christianity does the same soon after it is assimilated into the Roman Empire. It's used many other times throughout history, but lets jump to some things a little more recent.:

Neoconservatism is clearly the same mentality. Studying the history of it, and how it came about clearly spells this out. Just read PNAC as one example. They utilize this dualistic ideology to empower and grow the christian fundamentalism movement in American to unite with them. The common enemy loosely starts as communism, and soon becomes Islam, and I would say at present the concept of terrorism in general. This is used to violate people's rights, treat people as subhuman, and murder and plunder other countries. To hold power over people with might and fear, and the idea that we have a common enemy. Our own Satan. We find this heavily encorporated with zionism...is that just a coincidence? I don't think so, but you can judge for yourself.

Likewise, Jihadist Islam follows pretty much the same path as the Christian fundies, and neoconservative movement with it's own taste of ideas of course. But America is their Satan, and they even use the terminology.

With all this said, I think that OP should take into consideration this dualism, and possibly false dichotomy that has been used and is being used in a way that is hurting the world not helping it.

Maybe this entire historical narrative is the evil we should be aware of. When people want to create a satan or adversary for us for whatever self interests they have. When has it ever been used for good?

The weird thing is in Job where IIRC God makes a wager with Satan. I'm just wondering why God would talk with the dude he threw out of heaven. Even if the whole thing did prove his point.

“I simply went over to Satan’s side and I do not know why.” “I was not content to just believe in Satan, I wanted to be his chief of staff” - Aliester Crowley, not a silly carnival satanist like LaVey, but a satanist in every other sense of the word.

As a non-believer, I hole heatedly agree with you!

I think the ability for good and varied discussion is a real boon in this particular subreddit, and it is good to see, did you mean this particular area of the site or it as a whole?

No, he's being downvoted because he's insane. Or a sockpuppet pushing insanity.

I have a feeling this will be downvoted due to its religious nature... I hate that. I agree with you and would love for more people to consider such things. Unfortunately many will never consider the possibility of Satan because it forces a belief in God.

Good post!

As a scientist, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

But proof denies faith, and without faith 'God' is nothing.

No, proof denies blind faith. God is not a force or an energy, he is a person, and where do you get proof enough to put faith in a person? God has revealed himself to me and shown the Bible to be true, and Satan to be very real. For me, where i am, the blind thing to do would be deny all i've seen and experienced. If my wife shows herself to be faithful and true to me, is it Blind Faith, me trusting her on a trip to Vegas? Or is it just faith, because she has proven she loves me, and will not let me down? blind faith would be trusting that that girl who you gave your number to is still going to call you 3 months later. That's naive and silly. God is faithful and just.

I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt.

God is not a force or an energy, he is a person, and where do you get proof enough to put faith in a person? God has revealed himself to me and shown the Bible to be true, and Satan to be very real.

Thanks for changing my mind.

Shown the bible to be true eh? Care to elaborate on that ridiculous statement?

as an incredibly spiritual individual, god can be a person, but is definitely a force and energy. isnt that why people go to church? to 'feel' the presence of god?

im not a force, yet you can feel my presence if i sat near you. God is a conscious, living being with thoughts and feelings. He is a spirit and so much more. He actually loves us, the Hindu idea of a force or energy is cold and impersonal and leads to the poverty and apathy we see in india today.

i agree that he is a conscious being with thoughts and feelings, but that it is greater than the human conscious. i disagree that the hindu idea of force or energy is cold. the hindu idea is that you feel that force and energy from within. they are poor and 'apathetic' b/c they dont have to buy in to the consumer shit based society in which we live in. they dont need material things to feel fulfillment. they feel it from within, which is why they are able to live happily and peacefully.

Have you been there? My friend was there, there are more beggars than he's ever seen. They all crowd around the ashrams hoping for some help but people are so self focused, they think that others are just living out their karma so let them suffer. watch the film Gods of the New age and you will see how it really is over there, the deception that lies in hinduism, the same has even crept into corrupt christian churches. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPFewIjwBMA

The Indians have no monopoly on conditions that encourage poverty and apathy.

Just look at how many people are sworn neophites for Obama, in spite of his broken promises and expansion of Bush era extension of governmental authorities(at the cost of your rights).

No, but it puts the probability in finite world at near-zero. A theory that isn't physically falsifiable through evidence is also not science.

He's going to get downvoted because of this: "God has revealed himself to me". If someone claims to be in direct contact with god, you can be sure that they are either insane or just manipulative.

What would be your take on the recent stuff from David Wilcock/ Ben Fulford?

I have not really studied the Bible, but isn't there a part not unlike "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"?

That someone, a false savior, will come along and present us with all these great things like new technology and offers of peace, when it really is another aspect of the trap?

Ben Fulford is either completely deluded or under mind control. Whatever he's doing, it's a psy-op. He was involved in the translation of a book called 666 by Alexander Romanov, who claims to be high up illuminati but they claim he is nothing, nobody. All these mystery schools have a common root, and its gnosticism. Romanov claims, as the illuminati do, that the God of the Bible is evil, Satan even, and the serpent of eden is our real God who showed us our divinity. They faithfully believe that and that's why you can see lucifer coming up again and again. It seems that Ben Fulford believes this as well. He is a puppet.

"And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the 'Lord of Phosphorus,' and Lucifer, or 'Light-Bearer,' is in us: it is our Mind – our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism." "The new world order will NOT IMPOSE a uniform type of government, a synthetic religion and a system of standardisation upon the nations…. In one particular only should there be an attempt to produce unity, and that will be in the field of education." - Alice A Bailey, UN consultant and founder of Lucifer Publishing, UN NGO,

"When a Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy." - 32nd degree freemason Manly P Hall

33rd degree Freemason Albert Pike: "That which we must say to the crowd (the masses or the 'profane') is: We worship a God, but it is the God one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees: The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

David Spangler, a prolific new age author had this to say: "Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it, then he is free and we are free, that is the Luciferic Initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age." and also this: "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."

Fulford had access to interview David Rockefeller and painted him as a lovely man. He brings on ridiculous characters like that mustached guy, who claimed we need a new world order, and he himself thinks we should dissolve the old word to bring in a new age.

That quote is not from the Bible, its just something people say, but the bible does warn us there is going to be a flase peace within a time of heavy wars, less than 80 years after Israel is regathered as a nation. Check this film out later tonight if you get a chance, explains sort of whats happening with regards the truth movement and the false messiah.

Also a fascinating twist is this new "Drake" character, and coincidentally

Drake is a term used to describe (particular types of) dragon or similar draconic creatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon

Serpents.. teehee

Drake character?

He was some guy in a recent interview about the apparent plan to arrest "the cabal".

According to the bible the Anti-Christ will come as a leader so powerful and loved by the world that He will usher in an age of Global govt under his leadership... This is the Utopia "anti-nWo" is referring to.

For such a thing to actually happen the Anti-Christ person would have to be pretty damn impressive. I would think He would have to be someone that we view as a savior. If the Wilcock/Fulford stuff ever does play out then I would think it to be a good candidate.

Wilcock is a opportunist. Don't listen to this idiot. All is trying to do is hawk his book or movies.

As for "pretty damned impressive," that would never work in the flesh. Especially since we have been warned for generations that this time was coming around again. It is no fleshy being that will display itself to be worshiped by us. It is a spirit that has long been fed by the sacrifices of the powerful and the obedience of the masses. In fact this spirit is already worshiped covertly by the masses and so to reach the point where people are killed or harassed for not worshiping it is not that hard to pull off.

Very interesting post. My family is catholic and I've always considered myself as agnostic. The more I study the more I lean toward studying the Bible and your post confirms it. Have you studied Indian religions as well ?

I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church. i believe the vatican are far from the teachings of jesus but there are still christians in there. however christ never wanted a tyrannical church with a world leader at its head, and the first english bibles contained footnotes that called the pope the antichrist. oh actually this is perfect, you know what you'd love, have you ever heard of chris pinto? he does films on the founding fathers mystery religions, the occult architecture of washington dc, the symbolism on the dollar bill, etc, he's a meticulous researcher and he recently made a film charting the bloody battle the christians had to go through to get the bible to the world. the illuminati today is an offshoot of the jesuits which springs from rome, which was pagan, which traces its roots back to mystery babylon, and the pyramid that was built there by nimrod, the first antichrist. the whole conspiracy goes back to there, the first world dictator. wow sorry im rambling. though if any of that intrigued you have a look at [this playlist on youtube](www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCED9C361662866BD&feature=plcp), you wont find a better way to spend a day.

the film i was talking about is called a lamp in the dark and it can really let you see how much effort the free men and women of europe went to to get the bible into our hands. its the same battle we are fighting since as far back as we can track in history.

The problem that will always prove this kind of broken conspiracy wrong is that it contradicts not the bible, but every single bit of psychological understanding we have about human social interaction, as well as the general tendencies of human beings.

Let me elaborate:

We can first agree that 9/11 was an inside job by the American government. The difference in our beliefs lies in a very different understanding of how the human mind works and the motivation behind actions of high powered political figures.

Money and Power.

Money and power and the two reasons 9/11 even happened. You can look into this further if you want, but i'll sum it up for you. 9/11 was a planned event used to stop an ongoing investigation against many higher up political figures involved with corruption, and stealing over 2 trillion dollars. Research things such as WHERE on the twin towers the planes struck, and the correlation to WHERE the key documents related to the ongoing investigation were. Same for the pentagon

Look, I'm not going to tell you God does or does not exist; that's not my place. What I will tell you is that you have a very misguided idea on what motivates people to do certain things. Your theories are only plausible under the assumption that mind control works, and that there is this God figure which can harness it and control people at will, which are ridiculous claims with ZERO backing.

I would also recommend Bill Cooper's work specifically The Mystery Babylon broadcasts. Most of his work is spot on and checks out. I've listened to the series about 5-6 times each (40 hours total).

nwo is a utopia if you are into eugenics, slavery, tyranny and globalism.

Have you read the post? Overy slavery and tyranny are collapsing intentionally, mankind is going to be offered the world they have always dreamed of, peace love and prosperity, no more religion, war division, one world, under one leader and because of the new age infiltration of society, man will welcome it.

man will welcome it.

all those that survive it at least. For me tis a matter of perspective. People enduring terrible suffering right now does not justify or mitigate the means.

Even if the reaction is a global awakening of peace and cooperation, there will still be reason/opportunity and it maybe even more tempting for people to take advantage or take their 'rightful' meritious positions as 'leaders' and 'founding fathers'

In such a chaotic system there will always be pockets of extreme order and extreme disorder. I find it's more dynamic than we can fathom.

i wrote that post badly. what i meant to say is that decieved man will welcome it but we will be playing into the hands of those who crafted the nwo. there will be great suffering, war and rumours of wars, famine, disease, natural disasters, and they will increase until they get so bad that man cries out for a new age. and the nwo are waiting with their new world system plan to save the planet. even people within the truth movement are being prepped for this through the new age infiltration of the truth movement.

right they are enslaving us for our own good. If you are into pedophilia and fascism you will support the nwo agenda.

your comment reeks of group think. I guess i never had the dream you claim mankind had.

I think you misunderstand me. I am saying it is a bad thing. The new world order that we will be offering us is a deception, packaged as peace love and prosperity but it will be the new world order

your sarcasm is hard to detect. It reads to me like you are a trendy hipster embracing the new world agenda....

not sarcasm, guess i just didnt make it clear what i meant. it will be packaged as glorious but it will be the end times the bible warned us about. This film actually explains very well what i failed to say. give it a watch, its well worth it. from nwo researcher keith thompson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptjUhuv90vs

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Believe that the low hanging cherries are likely sweeter than those higher up and outside of my line of sight? It's Thursday

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I see where you're coming from and i was there for a while. The key to revelation is in every other book of the bible. It's not as simple as skimming it and understanding the mark of the beast. The entire NT is very important. Jesus's ministry was against the rulers of this world. This is a spiritual battle, and God gives us the power to do battle against the rulers of darkness.

Eph 6:11-13 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. (12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (13) Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

indeed.

I disagree. IMO the coded messages in revelations were meant for a people 2000 years ago and has been misinterpreted and misunderstood by many. The 616/666 controversy is a good example.

Go on..

As with the O.T. there are different layers of meaning. The numerical correspondence to Nero and other references indicate to me that it was a contemporary message, not a prediction of our end times..

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I disagree. Now are we talking about Daniel or Revelations? Either way, the translation is sorely lacking context.

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I think it's best to keep an open mind. it's more likely that neither of these books are being interpreted correctly thousands of years later in a different culture and language.

the most researched, criticized, printed, examined book in human history with a paper trail 1000x better than anything in antiquity, with thousands of books written about it, and you think its most likely we've forgotten what it means, when every generation people just add to the research done on it. what is your assumption based on?

What about all the parts that were cut out or lost over time? Also no originals remain. We have translations of translations and later copies. It is problematic. Also I think a lot of things started as oral traditions which can be messed up over time or when transcribed.

paper trail? like the one that without a doubt shows the historical veracity of jesus? don't make me laugh.

it's not an assumption it's fact. if you can't read or understand the original language, it's cultural context and coded references... if you come to my door with no idea what gematria means then don't be surprised when you have to close it and walk away. believe what you like, only keep it to yourself ok?

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well it couldnt hurt to pray beforehand, ask god to reveal the truth to you. if he's not real no loss, if he is, you'll finally understand why those evangelical christians are so enthusiastic about spreading the gospel.

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amen

This is all very facinating and I adore your candidnes. As an athiest I'm very interested in your reconversion to Christianity. Could you please give us a breif outline of what brought you back to the light? Thanks

I wouldnt say back to the light as i never knew it. I'd draw a distinction between catholocism and biblical christianity. my parents think im mad like. anyway here's my testimony, i gave it at my church recently. im nervous and i ramble, so sorry for that but i try and explain a tiny little 1% of where im coming from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vF4SLxJEzL4#t=1167s

By the way, I don't agree with this post, but I think it's one of the most interesting ever, if only for the quality of the dialog it started...

Please Note: You shouldn't be downvoting something merely based on the fact that you agree or disagree on this topic. You should be voting based on the fact of how WELL it fits into the conspiracy subreddit, and how well it adds to the content of our little place here.

And based on the outrageousness (minus the lack of evidence) this should still have an upvote.

based on the outrageousness AND the lack of evidence this should have an upvote.

EXACTLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kpTvm6CYA

thats actually hilarious!

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Aha, thats how i started. I was an atheist. If you stick to that position in the face of being completely wrong then you are not a truth seeker, you are a dogmatic atheist denying the truth. I started out without a belief in god and as i researched, i saw before me a conspiracy against god, one that ultimately proved the existence of satan, and then God, who revealed himself to me. So denying that would be silly.

.....

You said:

I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church.

Then you wrote:

I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church.

What were you really and don't lie anymore please.

P.S. What's your take on Ron Paul? Would you vote for him as a Christian?

You said: I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church. Then you wrote: I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church. I'm confused. I was raised catholic but i wouldnt say i really believed too strongly. I didn't understand it too much and I realised it wasnt for me when i saw what the catholic church was connected to. However the church in the book of acts and the catholic church are very different so i try and follow the apostles example and stick to the Word.

I'm not lying, if there's an inconsistency somewhere please be aware i've replied to 50 comments on this and might type a mistake here or there. My video testimony is here on private share if you are interested.

Also when i was anti-theist semi-new-ager I had an argument with a christian about why the bible wasn't true and why he was deceived. I'm on the left in black

oh i see where the confusion is. i was a not really practising catholic who lost faith as a teenager. i was an atheist up until i was about 21,22 when i got into the new-age, i believed man had more right to call himself divine than any external god, i thought the answer was to look inward. when i didnt find anything, god showed me i was messing with demons and the more i researched the global conspiracy the more i saw the truth, that the bible is mocked for a good reason, its very very dangerous to satans new world order.

Eph 6:10-13 (10) Finally, be strong in the Lord, relying on his mighty strength. (11) Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the devil's strategies. (12) For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers in the darkness around us, and evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm. (13) For this reason, take up the whole armor of God so that you may be able to take a stand whenever evil comes. And when you have done everything you could, you will be able to stand firm.

Interesting then what do you think about this:

Exodus 12:12: For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the LORD

More proof of the bible talking about multiple gods can be found here.

My point is that the Hindu/Bhuddist religions are not entirely wrong when they say there are multiple gods etc. I do have a problem with New Agers though sugar coating everything when that's not how the world works. From experience I can honestly say that if you have a weak mind then yes, Jesus can help you if you pray/meditate to him. But, if you're strong enough mentally then you can do the work yourself.

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Great post.

interesting post. so, i cant quite tell, are you in favour of the whole thing or not? do you think that the end point (the utopia you speak of) will somehow be worth it? be a "better" place? i couldnt quite figure out which side of the fence you are on.

personally i believe in preserving the diversity of societal life, and cultures, and am strongly opposed to any joining of nations under some form of "world government", (i believe it will just make different cultures blend together to form a boring beige world), so would be interested to hear your opinions too.

rewrote the end for clarity

rewrote the end for clarity. it will be sold as a utopia and i believe the world will welcome it for a time, until it is too late and revealed as a dystopian system. watch out for one man gaining too much prominence on the world stage then check the book of revelation. ,)

Awesome post! I am stunned by how thorough and well written it is. I took a similar route to the Truth about 4 years ago, an I have not been the same since.

The same thing kept coming up for me. If there is no God, and no Devil, then why do ALL of the elites worship Lucifer or some derivative of him?

So I set out to disprove Biblical Christianity, it can't be done.

Here is a video that explains how we in the Truth Movement have been mislead.

Relevant.

Any good Hegelian lapdog knows that Thesis and Antithesis lead to Synthesis, sure, but they forget about the ages after that. Any good Discordian will tell you to remember Parenthesis and Paralysis. Any Utopia will collapse under the weight of its own bureaucracy (parenthesis) and then inevitably there is a return to chaos (paralysis). The truth of the matter is that you are in the antithesis already, society is the response to the chaos that was the primal, creative state of humankind, the true Thesis, but society is also the closed system that creates entropy. The synthesis is not a Utopia, it is the system that we have now, steadily increasing in control and order, creating wars for profit, and making sure we buy up drugs to keep us pacified... The Bureaucracy that emerges from this synthesis will always become corrupted, not by chaos, since chaos is fractal and creative, but by the grasping for Power... bureaucracy will just become too big for its own good, trying to control everything and everyone without being able to control itself. There will always be the one or two people who can change the world to make it more free from a system of control. However, even a Utopia is a prison in the wrong hands, since it excludes everyone outside of it. History is cyclical, the rise and fall of closed systems we call civilizations. What you see as the stock market is just the system trying to outrun the inevitable crush of entropy that comes along with a closed system, especially a system that is based on creating entropy in order to "profit." (The Federal Reserve is a closed economic system that creates a vacuum in order to "suck" things dry, or to create the illusion that "commerce" is taking place, when its everyone really trying to settle their debts off of debts...) The raping of foreign resources is just one way that the NWO or whoever gets to live another day, that the inevitable collapse gets delayed another day longer. In that light, it becomes obvious why the Police of the World, America, spends so much money on their military budget. Sure, the occult ideologies play into the whole mythos of the NWO, even "reptilians" need something to BELIEVE in to keep them going or whatever. But I will tell you a secret.

The NWO don't have power, they have a vacuum of power. They have money they have hidden, resources they have stowed away, ideas they have suppressed. Power is when you have something and you actually use it. When you uplift others with what you have, not oppress them. Power is when you create resonance, when energy travels fractally to all parts of the system. They do not have power... they fear power. And you would think that this empowered system is a Utopia... but since people aren't educated, due to the way they control education, the Power would be unfocused, we wouldn't know what to do with it. Utopia essentially means "no place". Until we create a government that runs smoothly without corruption because it chooses the people to represent us randomly based on their creative problem-solving abilities rather than the fact they can wear a suit and speak in front of cameras, then you won't have a Utopia, you'll just have some other Hegelian cycle, repeating itself over and over again, because morons (like the NWO) can't accept the fact that we live in a system governed by fractal chaos and flowing energy, and you either get in harmony with that or the planet rejects you via climate change or you fall prey to the entropy that you generate.

Those "luciferian" people that you see running around in V for Vendetta or the Matrix are like the antibodies in a system that is filled with dis-ease. Look at how in the Matrix, all things become Agent Smith. (Who was once a symbol of control, until Neo "hacked" him to become a replicating virus) Or how everyone at the end of V for Vendetta, everyone is wearing a Guy Fawkes mask. They are people who resist the control structure and learn how to control themselves and their own reality. In essence, the Power is one they learn to share with others. Those in control of others are never in control of themselves. This is what you need to take away from films like that. In my opinion, though, Utopia would be boring, if everyone was the same, what would the point of all of THIS be?

Also... Absolute Truth has no words. It cannot be found in a book. Books are merely the shadows that we cast on the page with our meanings, our interpretation of this world. People can talk all day, but in the end they can only experience their own version or perspective of reality. The problem with the Bible , or any words printed anywhere is that everyone will interpret them in their OWN context. This is how the closed systems of religion break down, in the end, is that no two people will agree on the meaning of the same word because all people are different. Even these systems of control, like Christianity, fall prey to entropy, and fracture into many different sects and subsects and congregations. It's the same with the NWO, it is not one system of control, but many systems of control vying for control. This is also how it will never have real power, since it is always on the brink of collapse, collapsing in on itself, like the vacuum and the black hole that it is. All it needs is the right little nudge in a few specific places and, sure, we can get going with an age of Thesis or creative chaos again. They are afraid because their power is illusory and they are few and we are many.

Well, if we're going by the Bible and God wins out in the end, I'm going to keep playing videogames and not care, because, hey, we already know the ending, right?

The New World Order is the synthesis between Communism and Globalism. Racist, crypto-Zionist, Jewish revolutionaries and bankers were behind Communism. Crypto-fascist WASPs were behind Globalism. As the Jewish fanatics infiltrated the West, the two merged. This is where we are today.

The key to identifying membership in the New World Order is determining who's in bed with the Zionists.

When? How do you know its a New World Order, not just a power play? Where do get the term New World Order for this synthesis?

Like a lot of people, I use NWO as shorthand for the synthesis. It's not simply a power play because Zionism is a messianic, Jewish supremacist agenda to rule the world, spelled out in Jewish religous documents. And it has roped in a lot of greedy hangers on who were initially just looking to get rich, but who have swallowed the messianism hook, line and sinker as an excuse for selling their souls.

Here's some of the documentation of the racist Jewish messianism:

http://www.judeofascism.com/2011/11/jewish-doctrine-vowing-to-indebt.html

http://www.judeofascism.com/2011/07/organized-jewrys-misanthropic-genocidal.html

what do you make of the protocols of zion? have you ever considered actually tracing the term NWO back, to see what it actually means?

I view the Protocols as a caricature of the way the Zionist racket really works. In other words, they're not genuine, but they were put together by someone who understands the methods, motives and agenda of Jewish supremacists, and wanted to communicate to the world the dangers of Zionism.

Here is Alexander Sozhenitsyn's take on the Protocols.

Believe what you would like, but without spiritual beliefs, you only have one half of the argument against what the New World Order stands for. I know that some of what I have learned about the NWO is drastically exagerrated information. In saying that I also want to stress that I am fully faithful in my belief that not only does the NWO encourage a spiritual state against our true nature, but the NWO physically suppresses our conscious abilities through monopolistic education systems and through the poisoning of our food and water. Research Sigil magick, agriculture, and extra terrestrial information more in depth before you surrender yourself to their cause.

I hope that we may all someday be heroes like John Todd.

So for those who are not believers, how do you get around entropy?

I don't know what to believe. But I do know people are full of shit.

have you tried enemas

Maybe. But remember every human has a slice of creative power over their reality. They cannot determine it entirely. They know that fact as well. That's why they want our hearts and minds. Stand true to your beliefs and all will be well.

TL:DR: Alex Jones and David Icke

So you're citing a disinformation agent and nutball.

ummm im saying they're wrong. david icke is part of the agenda. did you tl:dr the tl:dr!? im saying don't listen to those people and do your own research

That's right. They're all part of the agenda but also is anyone's own research. Sense of enlightenment caused by intellectual research is just something that ego loves. Ego escapes evil in the world by being cunning in this case, but is still bound to that dualistic world view that is not real. Only truth is found in the present moment, behind language or thinking processes. Just feel your body, be present and find that true love which comes from within, deeper than this dualistic illusionary world. Everything in physical form only shows us what we are not. It doesn't matter what it is that people believe, if it's outside the peaceful moment, its always part of the agenda.

I'm glad you were so incisive as to be able to pierce the veil and see what's really going on. If it wasn't for you, we'd all be worshiping Satan or Lucifer or some other such nonsense on a magic pyramid by now. Keep up the good work!

You lost me when you depicted the Beatles as being satanic

The old world order are the cabal trying to take over the world ;)

Can you elaborate? with references please

"new world order" I think is just used to try to confuse people, as the group working for population reduction, total police state, etc are a group of old families/bloodlines. I think the concept of a "New world order" would maybe be a good thing rather than a bad thing...

http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/The-Old-World-Order%281025563%29.htm

"Confusion surrounds conspiracy theory terminology, especially regarding the Illuminati, the New World Order (NWO), and the Old World Order (OWO). Who benefits from such confusion? The powers-that-be, those who wish to prevent the various resistance groups coalescing into a single powerful force that will at last challenge the elites that run the world."

see here too: http://www.illuminati-news.com/00392.html

I had a feeling you meant that site. Pro-illuminati propaganda is rife in a world who doesn't even understand what the new world order is in the first place. If you're going to believe that you should really look further into it. The NWO is going to be marketed as a good thing, because the people behind it believe it is. they faithfully believe they are bringing the world into a new age, but i would research the new age if i were you, see what exactly it is. http://www.inplainsite.org/html/new_age.html

I don't mean new/old "world order" in a strict sense, I just think that the words are cleverly used depending on who is trying to twist them. I see it as more an "old" cabal or group of people who has been running the show for 100's of years (rothschilds, etc). I think that a "new" regime or way of running things, sponsored by the people/collective in whatever way you choose where you live, would be good for humanity and earth. This new system would be a new "order" where personal sovereignty and freedom exists as opposed to the situation most of the world is in right now.

This is just my personal interpretation of what I know, and I don't really like to interpret the words I read too strictly (illuminati even...I don't think there is one single "illuminati"). I guess make of it what you will...

Just throwing this in there because your links seems to cite a lot of religion....I also think that most organized religion (all forms, christianity, islam, judaism, etc) is a paradigm of the "old world" and it has been mis-represented over the centuries by those "old interests" who were in charge.

are you blaming someone or something else for the situation you're in?

what happened to personal responsibility?

https://sites.google.com/site/solutionsfortheindividual/autonomy/peaceful-inhabitants

I couldnt be happier with the situation I'm in. The Bible makes it quite clear that God will triumph. You put words in my mouth dear sir. Are you denying history? Do you deny there is a cabal of powerful people involved in world affairs? I don't just mean politically either. Music industry, Hollywood, most all aspects of our society, predicted to go this way a long time ago, and its unfolding with sterling accuracy.

The Bible makes it quite clear that God will triumph

do you believe everything you read? could it be that by waiting to be saved by God, people are refusing to accept personal responsibility?

You put words in my mouth dear sir

why you think that?

Are you denying history? Do you deny there is a cabal of powerful people involved in world affairs?

what history are you referring to? what evidence is there of this "cabal of powerful people"? if there is such "cabal", what makes you think you understand what they do and why they do it?

most all aspects of our society, predicted to go this way a long time ago, and its unfolding with sterling accuracy

are you saying we have no responsibility for what happens?

I dont believe everything I have read no. I trust the Bible after tireless hours of investigation into its origins and prophecy. I used to doubt the Bible and try and lead people away from it. I read the writings of occultists, freemasons and illuminatists but i don't believe that. Reading all of their stuff convinces me of the supernatural though, coupled with experiences I've had.

We are not supposed to just wait for God, we are to expose the works of darkness and spread the gospel unto freedom.

Eph 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

World History, the Rothschilds history for example, the History of zionism and freemasonry, their own writings openly condemn them, if you don't believe it try reading some books on it, Try the New Rulers of the World by John Pilger, New World Order by William T Still, Tragedy and Hope by Carol Quigley. Research the false flags that led to world war 1 & 2, what about the fact that they were predicted with deadly accuracy by freemason and founder of the KKK, Albert Pike?

Written at the beginning of the 20th century, the earliest copy we still have in 1925, which predates WWII by 14 years.

“The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the agentur (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.”

“The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.”

“The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the agentur of the Illuminati between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and political Zionism mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

And no I'm not saying we have no responsibility, I'm saying that God saw the future before he even created the World. The future laid out in the Bible takes into account our free will, though i don't expect you to believe any of it judging by your argumentative tone.

How do you know the bible is entirely God's word? It's been heavily edited and rewritten over thousands of years - look at all the pedophile priests we have now, tempted away by Satan. Do you not think it's possible that similarly evil men could not have left their mark on the book over all that time? What about all the gospels that were written that were left out or edited out of the Bible, are they not God's word as well?

You place a lot of faith in a text with no clear lineage and subject to the whims of thousands of years of editors.

I believe this should answer at least some of your questions.

[deleted]

• Yes.
• Yes.
• Through the words of Jesus Christ.

No there is no God. There is no Devil.

There's a bunch of Humans with dark urges that need to create the idea of something 'bigger' than them. So that they're not possibly responsible for the hideously horrible things they do to their fellow Human beings. Also, there's a fuckload of Sociopaths and Psychopaths sitting at the top of the foodchain. They got there because they have no qualms about destroying anyone deemed to be a threat to them.

That's not 'the Devil' it's greed and lust for power and extremism of a like that most of us will never experience.

Who is it then that ALL of the elites worship? There is a real spiritual force that they sacrifice to and serve, what is that force?

And that's proof of anything how, exactly? Just because they're possibly as deluded as poor people who believe in god doesn't offer evidence of anything.

we are to expose the works of darkness and spread the gospel unto freedom

how can you be certain that you know what is "darkness", and what isn't?

Eph 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

do you think "the new world order" is unfruitful? if so, why do you think that?

no I'm not saying we have no responsibility, I'm saying that God saw the future before he even created the World. The future laid out in the Bible takes into account our free will

if there is a God, and he did see the future before creating the world, what's that got to do with personal responsibility?

argumentative tone

what's argumentative about asking questions? how else am I supposed to understand what you think and why you think it?

Predicting that greedy people will flock to greed-driven industries and over time those industries will become greedier and more controlling as influence slips away from them is not the same as there being a nearly omnipotent "cabal of powerful people" in league with Lucifer in order to bring on the antichrist.

Don't post something like this and get all pissy when people pick it apart. This may be r/conspiracy but

The Bible makes it quite clear that God will triumph

is not going to fly.

I heard Hitler wanted to create a Utopian world and society. Too bad you needed to fill a the pre-requirement to be accepted and that requirement needed you to be born with it....

Hitler learned from the same people that brought you the New Age, the New World Order, madam HP Blavatsky, hitler was a theosophist, the religion of the NWO, he was heavily involved in the occult and was trying to bring about a new age, by force. He failed but what we did not see is that within germany, they had abolished christianity and were on the verge of declaring hitler a god. Research hitler and the occult, you could start with the Enigma of the Swastika if you are interested, part 1 (60min) of 4 part doc on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVB0FRz3_cM

Thanks! Will look into that!

We've had choices, and despite how you ingrates feel about the universe we have made said choices.

Satan and God are irrelevant concepts, they are not people, they are aspects of said thought that you can choose to align yourself with.

You can choose to serve yourself and be part of one timeline and live in fear and hate or you can choose to serve others and live with love and harmony.

In truth, you ARE god. We are all god. All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.

You can accept this and behave as such, or you can come back once more to try to learn it.

The new age will be one of peace and prosperity because of the overwhelming force of good on our planet striving for it. You can be a part of this force, if you choose to separate yourself from the chaff.

Gen 3:1-6 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" (2) And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; (3) but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" (4) But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. (5) For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (6) So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

The new age is a deception, it is the religion of self worship, it is dangerous, i was in it and i opened myself up to spirits. I used to believe what you believe until i realised thats what they want us to think, that we just have to remember our identity, and we can ascend into gods. Check out this article my mate wrote on the new age, its a deception brother. http://www.wearechange.ie/new-world-new-religion/

that passage is a translation - IMO discussing the english translation is akin to reviewing a movie by looking at a still photo.

thankfully we still have the manuscripts, the jews faithfully preserved them. if you go to this website, or a jewish temple you can see it is a faithful translation. http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=3&v=1&t=KJV&sstr=1

just click the number beside a word you question and it will bring up the original and the broad definition.

translation, but not interpretations. they are different. for example, the website you offer doesn't take into account the numerical/alphabetical duality of the original language amongst other aspects.

so you're just never gonna know what the bible says?

on some levels it is fairly transparent. but I figure unless you are really immersed in the original language, and context of the current events/culture it won't be complete..

You might find Derek Prince illuminating. He was educated at Eton and took Philosophy at Cambridge. He was a self desribed logician and atheist. He studied Latin, Hebrew and Greek. He had a fascintating life and left us with many books, videos and most importantly, audio tapes that are available for download, he really goes into the richer meaning behind the words, and expands it to new levels that are lost in the english

it's not worth it. a 2000 year old book about the roman empire and the persecution of the proto-christian sect is only relevant to to me in the fact that people believing it is prophesy are bent on destroying the world to make their messiah return... sounds awful backwards and human centric again..

I like what you posted. I would however disagree with you about what "Lucifer" is, and whether or not we are "controlled" by a "malevolent entity."

What do you disagree with then ?

Look at what lucifer represents. Not in the bible, but the books that predated the bible and are what ultimately inspired the bible. He's the angle/concept of intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom. Problem is, those things can be used to work great evils (see the last ~3000 years). Thus he is painted that way in the bible.

Also, if you're going to go with the "malevolent entity" you're really going back to what is described in the Book of Enoch. The "controllers" are the fallen angels/watchers who were punished for introducing evil to man. Their punishment was to be karmically tied to the existence of the human race on earth, i.e. they cannot leave and ascend until the human race does. While I'm sure many are "evil" there were many who are good and more who are neutral. This helps ensure "balance" is maintained.

Also, control. Are you a puppet? A marionette? Is every second of you're life controlled by an outside force? No. We still have free will, and 95%+ of all the evil on earth comes from man. If a group of men gain enough knowledge and power to become evil kingmakers (which is the "true" illuminati/fallen/watchers job), what are the watchers to do? They can nuke it from orbit, but violence only begets violence. Their better choice would be in "bring it into the fold" so to speak and take control of the group, make sure it doesn't do too much damage, and eventually rot it from the inside.

If you're going with the Book of Enoch (AKA Hermes Trismegistus), it means the watchers were commanded by god himself to shepherd our race and draw out the poison they introduced into our souls. Some probably still rebel, other help, and still others watch and nudge. Their ultimate goal is to enlighten humanity, at which point the entirety of the human race will judge them for their crimes and their penance.

They don't get to have ultimate control over people, they can only give us choices. What we do with them is our own fault. The "malevolent entity" is in our own souls.

Okay. tldr. Based on your OP alone, I would say that any system wherein the main practitioners or proponents of that system enslave and kill entire groups, races, and societies of people in order to enact that system is absolutely not a good one.

This truth alone is enough to merit a big Fuck You to the NWO.

umm agreed, thats what i was saying

Okay. That's great then (no sarcasm). If that's what you meant, however, why did you title the heading in the manner that you did?

i.e. a police state is not good. a utopia is. Equating the NWO with a utopia as opposed to a police state as the heading seems to is effectively equating the NWO with something good as opposed to something bad. That's what I was taking immediate issue with in my initial comment.

If what you were ultimately saying was that the NWO isn't a good thing, then why did you title the heading the way you did?

Perhaps it was sarcasm or satirical?

Did you read the thread, the people behind the new world order openly declare in their writings that they want a new age for humanity, a golden age of peace and enlightenment. except its based on luciferian doctrine and they are awaiting a global leader to user in this new age. they are trying to do good in their own eyes.

also if you do some research on the history of the word utopia, you will see it is satirical in itself, that ALL utopia's are control system with idealistic visions. the words utopia and dystopia essentially mean the same thing in practise, because nothing works for everybody. calling it a utopia if 99% of people are happy is just socialism and a matter of perspective.

point is, its gonna come as a utopian dream and people will soon welcome it, they'll have given it all their power, i believe before it comes down on them like a ton of bricks. remember the germans were on the verge of declaring hitler a god before the war.

So are you saying that the NWO is both a police state and a utopia - utopia in the dystopian way you have just described it as here, that is?

I got a little confused as to what exactly you meant in your last paragraph. Are you saying that the NWO is going to be embraced by the public as a utopian dream and be accepted in that manner?

If this is what you're saying, I would say that I think this is definitely the plan and hope of the 0.1% - that the people would just agree to the NWO - but I don't know if that's as likely to happen now as before. The internet is allowing people to become much more aware of their (the 0.1%'s) diabolical machinations than ever before. I don't know if this will be enough - and my hunch is that it might not be - but I think that, again, the 99% are better aware of the end game than before, and this helps combat the domination of the NWO.

BTW I've been listening to a narration of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion . . . and it's pretty frighteningly telling.

I think it's "aliens" and not so much Satan. Either way this horrific world needs change and it needs it quick! All of us in front of our light boxes may be fine and content, but millions of people/animals are living in poverty and shambles. Why can't we all just get along

Byahhhhh you will find this fascinating

I also recommend this

Age of Deceit: Fallen Angels and the NWO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjmFm8PIz8M

it was alright, I skimmed it. Seems like too much to worry about.

So you felt strongly enough to post your thoughts on the matter, but don't care to carefully research the topic? "Seems like too much to worry about."

So you like to look at one side of things, and assume it's the only way without looking at other perspectives. If I wasn't laughing at this foolishness, I'd be crying.

Honestly fellow humans, we don't know shit. Seriously, we don't know who this nwo is. We don't know if there is a god or satan or even tiny invisible ponies flying amongst us. So why worry. You can breath the beautiful air, explore the vast reaches of the internet, even talk to strangers like me ;) Will we as a collective species ever stop this inevitable world government, idk, maybe... Make a difference my friend, start this revolution

ah sure thats grand thanks. lets give up the research, chuck all the teraquads of information, burn the libraries and not bother trying to figure out where we're coming from, whats happening and where we're going, cuz it just seems too hard.

There is enough evidence of design in the earth and the universe to conclude that there is a creator (aka God). It's every individual person's choice to either accept or deny the evidence. A great place to start is a video series called "The Evolution of a Creationist".

Then where did God come from?

Your question assumes that God is bound by the very limits which He put in place for our world. In the context of there being a heavenly realm, our world is very limited in comparison. It's illogical to assume that a creator is limited to the same things of his creation. If you were a computer, you would be wrong in assuming that your human creator is incapable of love or emotion.

In the same way, we would be wrong to assume that God must have had a "beginning". That is a tough concept to grasp, which is another example of how limited human intelligence really is. I have no doubt that it will not be a challenge to understand such things once we cross over to eternity.

only something bound by time needs a beginning. God always was and if you want to know more about him, pray and read the new testament with your heart open, and ask yourself, if a perfect being, our god lived among us, would he act like jesus did? would he die for our sins?

Could God make a sandwich so BIG that even he couldn't eat it?

Your question is assuming that God eats food. But personally I believe the answer is no.

Classically echoed by Homer Simpson in "Can God microwave a burrito so hot he can not eat it?" My friend Bill answers the question in this very brief video.

[deleted]

You can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, thus nothing regarding God can be considered factual.

I'm an atheist (raised Southern Baptist), and I highly recommend this book as a companion to your Bible study. It's available as a free download:http://www.rael.org/download.php?view.1

I agree that the solution/synthesis will eventual be a global society, that we could eventually form into something resembling a Utopia, but the fuckers who have woven the Matrix that we live in currently are going to have to give up their ideas of power and control.

Do you believe in this? You might find this illuminating, Mark Eastman discusses the raelians in part 4 or 5, i think part 5. http://www.khouse.org/pages/special_events/alien_encounters/

Yes, I believe that. I just spent the 50 minutes listening to Part 5, but no mention of Rael. I'll try to listen to Part 4 later, but I'm re-inspired to re-state that you should download and spend 50 minutes reading Intelligent Design. I assume you like this guy and are a Christian, but obviously one who asks questions. Question this dichotomy of "good and evil" and how it's applied to "angels and demons" for starters. Life and consciousness will always default to the good (preserving and respecting life and consciousness), unless acted upon and taught by unevolved versions of life and consciousness: those who still hold outdated survival instincts that translate into fear, greed, want and hate – and who have turned that into a need for power and control, thus being Gods of the Earth. Our evil is very Earth-centric; beings in our universe who have learned how to travel to other civilizations no longer kill each other on their home planet, because they've learned to think of their fellow dwellers as citizens of the universe, not members of races, religions or other divisive categories. His idea of malevolent aliens being the same as minions of Satan are absurd. Rael's explanation of who Satan and Lucifer were historically is much more believable, as ridiculous as it may sound on the surface.

Thanks for the discourse and making me write something. Needed it.

You know what, I half agree with you. There is a malevolent spiritual force bearing down on our world. To call it Satanic is most probably correct. The Bible's "mark of the beast" warning is also legit.

But where you've veered off into the deep end is dividing people into Christian vs non-Christian camps as your litmus test. First, pretty much every bad guy in power in America is Christian. The Catholics have been sinister oppressors. Maybe they aren't 'true' Christians. But what makes YOU a true Christian and them not? Because you chose to cherry-pick some different passages than them?

Truth is you're tricked into supporting another oppressive control system (Old Testament). A quick glance through that Bible shows 'Yahweh' as an obvious demon to anyone with a shred of reason in them. This is why you write off 'Gnostics' and so many others as enemies. The Beatles? Leary? Zeppelin? 'Satanic gnostics'? Seriously? A satanic gnostic? That's about the weirdest contradiction I've heard. These aren't the 'enemies'. People who don't cling to your interpretation of the bible for their moral foundation aren't your enemies.

You're just blinded by hate to play into the division game, making you of no help to anyone. Another Vigilant Citizen sucker. The deception goes deep - to assume you are out of it, when you clearly aren't, is when you've lost to their game.

And the most telling sign is that you'll see anyone questioning/doubting the Bible as a lost cause. Until you get over this particular hurdle you will be no better than another lunatic ranter. You have to escape your circular reasoning, because you will now ignore or write off anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do. Are we all your enemies because we don't stick to your flavor of dogma? Or can you accept differences without seeing an enemy in everyone... might as well be a bigot or a racist.

I'll tell you, my litmus test isn't whether someone thumps one religious text or the other. It's whether they believe in human freedom or not, whether their actions support that. And you can find support for this in the Bible and in Jesus' words. You can find support for this in other religious texts, teachings, and wisdom. Don't close yourself off. Open your heart, brother, we are on the same team, and all we have to do is stand together for community and freedom.

You know, I think Jesus was great, but consider that maybe he too was deceived by God. "Why hast thou forsaken me?" Maybe God isn't real. Maybe God isn't on our side. But I'll tell you one thing, if God is real and evil, then I am definitely not on his side. I'll choose Jesus, and go for good, and no one, no book, not even the Bible, is going to persuade me to worship evil. Always, always take direct experience of the divine over the words of man. If you can't tell an angel from a demon, well, then you aren't to blame, are you? But to me what is good and evil is pretty damn obvious, and I choose good.

Christian in the religious sense maybe, but not in the true sense of the word. You may be surprised to know that the Bible is quite consistent, that I don't pick and choose passages that suit my beliefs. Jesus said to know them by their fruits, many will come wearing the banner of Christ but they are not mine.

Mat 7:13-23 (13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Joh 3:3-7 (3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rev 3:14-20 (14) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. (16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: (18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sorry for all the verses and I pray they make sense. Those are Jesus's words every time and he is saying that a lot of professing Christians are not christians in the heart, and are just wearing the religion like an accessory. Biblical Christianity, which begins when one is born again of the spirit, after handing their life over to God and repenting of sin, it is not like a religion. Religion is man's attempts at overcoming sin and reaching out to God, when the Bible says that Christ reached out to us, despite our sin. Jesus was a friend of drunks, sinners, lepers and tax collectors. Other religions, including fake outward christianity has us trying to stop sinning to purify our hearts so that we can know God, but Christs work on the cross made it so that God purifies our hearts, SO THAT we can stop sinning, God comes to us when we are still sinners.

As for the music industry stuff, This documentary should give you some insight as to the real forces behind the beatles, leary, and led zeppelin. Its only an hour, I'd recommend it a lot, cheesy production value but facts you cant argue with. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4315257824039757348

A satanic gnostic? That's about the weirdest contradiction I've heard. These aren't the 'enemies'. People who don't cling to your interpretation of the bible for their moral foundation aren't your enemies.

The basic foundation of gnosticism teaches that sofia, the snake in the garden of eden is the god of the universe, that created Jahweh, and we can evolve to be like her because we have the divine spark in us. They revere lucifer as the light bearer that showed us the knowledge to free us from eden, so yes, gnostics are satanic whether they know it or not. They believe that acquisition of occult knowledge is the path to freedom. I have a friend thats a gnostic, and I don't appreciate you putting words. I never said we even had human enemies. Jesus called us to love those that persecute you. I'm not quite there yet but I don't hate anyone, I used to. I don't have anger towards the people that are deceiving mankind and manipulating them, I stand opposed to dark forces, and I see the human beings caught up in it as victims, because I was messing around in the new age myself and a christian friend helped me see the truth. Doubt that would have worked if he condemned and hated me. Please don't try and judge me by a few lines of text, this isn't about me, and I certainly never gave the impression I hated anyone.

And the most telling sign is that you'll see anyone questioning/doubting the Bible as a lost cause.

How could you know that if it were true? It's not. I love debates about the Bible and in the last year the Lord has used me to reach at least 3 of my friends who were against the Bible and are now born again, serving God (well one is a bit lost atm but thats another issue). Point is, you're making judgements about me when I've revealed little of myself in the text. I used to be an anti-theist who would argue against the scriptures. The guy in blue in this video is me arguing with a preacher in Dublin. I was wrong, I now go to a church that i only know because of him. Thats how God works. I'm the one in black that appears about 5 seconds in, on the left. and this is my testimony in my church a year later.

"Why hast thou forsaken me?"

God turned his back on his son, to punish him for our sins so that we can be set free. Jesus then suffered Gods wrath and to do that he had to be separate from God. Jesus shed tears on that cross, and its funny how his most human moment was also his most godly. Jesus died because we are sinners, this world is fallen, broken and self serving. God is a just and fair judge so we have to be punished for that or there would be no balance in the universe, but he is also a merciful God so to grant us mercy he took the punishment for all the sins of all the world on top of him. He died so that we may die to sin and be re-born in him. I was a semi-gnostic ,new age anti-christian and god changed my heart, like Paul on the damascus road. He can do it with anyone and its not based on what we do, its all about him.

Thanks for your reply. I'm late replying - weekend break.

I was at church yesterday (a Christian church) thinking about what you wrote.

Yes, you can throw positive Bible quotes at me, and I applaud you for that. That's what we should be doing. But I can just as legitimately throw negative quotes at you to show that the Old Testament God is quite clearly a disgusting tyrant. But instead of twisting and warping my mind to defend this (God is a just and fair judge, we have to be punished, He grants us mercy, etc), I'm shaking off those mental chains.

How sure are you that YOU have not been deceived?

Because from my vantage point you are just another soul deceived and misdirected. That makes Baby Jesus sad. But, I truly think you have good intentions, and that you have faith in a benevolent creator. I do too, I just don't define "God" the way you do. I define things the way I've experienced them spiritually, not by the way some man-made book said so. If you experienced a vengeful wrath god, then sure, it's your choice to follow that. As it's my choice to reject that.

gnostics are satanic whether they know it or not

Christians are satanic whether they know it or not. Muslims are... See the picture here?
It's so easy to accuse every other religion but your own of being satanic, when you need a scapegoat to pin your paranoia on.

Do you seriously believe that "gnostics", who, historically, have been an extremely small and highly persecuted movement, are secretly in power over the world and are about to hatch an elaborate global scheme to wipe out Christianity?

This is about as absurd as it gets. You are literally afraid of nothing. If you look around the world, it is atheists Christians Muslims and Jews, not gnostics, that run things. I'd say you have far worse to fear from materialists (those who deny a spiritual reality exists), who often become narcissists or psychopaths. Generally a hardcore atheistic materialist is not about to declare allegiance to "Lucifer".

You might want to take a look at this gnostic site: www.metahistory.org It is a little more tame view of the movement, written by a self-proclaimed gnostic.

I'm not a gnostic, but this hyper-paranoia about them is not only silly, but dangerous. We all know what can happen to scapegoats.

IMO the real conspiracy on Earth is all about money, not religion. Organized religion is making you fear your far-away neighbor, instead of looking at the root cause: CURRENCY CONTROL. As long as you are a subject to THEIR point system, they stay on top, and you and I stay on the bottom. If you value their money (and the propaganda makes sure everyone really realllly values their money, and that all politicians do is bicker and argue about it), AND they can create their money for free, then they win. Forget petty religious differences, my friend. The real satanic religion is the worship of money, so that we "compete" (fight) with each other and sacrifice each other to the "economy". The Economy is our false idol, the 'valuable symbols' (money) our graven image. This will manifest satan on our world, not the other way around. It is a very evil and very subtle system of slavery, and I'm willing to bet even the masters of this system don't realize the satanic danger it presents. Do you really think these people worship satan? No. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making people think he doesn't exist."

The solution: alternative currencies, localization, community. Put money back into the commons. Watch first hour of Money Masters for an example. It even has some good Jesus quotes in there, so you should be on board with it.

I'm sorry, and I'm going to get downvoted, and I don't care...

But you my friend are an idiot.

I agree. I have often considered this style of Social Dialectic to be the only way we can get out of our childhood years as a civilization and progress on into the wonders that await us. Whether or not your 'evidence' as some posters are bitching about, is there or not, doesn't matter. The Social Dialectic, in this situation, is basically the only hope we have.

Just leave Jesus and Satan out of it. Unless they're fighting Pokemon with Samurai Jack, such mythology has no place in real world events. That isn't to say that people who DO believe in such bull aren't out there working to make shit happen. THEY are the ones that'll bring about the NWO / Martial Law / Whatever because they believe in this.

TL:DR blame the struggles of man on the supernatural and other imaginary things

This is exactly the sort of long-winded post I would expect during a full moon on Easter weekend.

Good times...

God plays, and is, all sides. Worshipping Satan, the Sun, the moon, the Earth or anything else you want to worship, including yourself, is still worshipping God. It states this very simply in this Bible you speak of. Why doesn't anyone ever notice this?

Could you please cite where in the bible it states this very simply?

My fault.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 - The same was in the beginning with God. 3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1: 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

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I understand where you're coming from. I don't worship anything. I believe *in everything and nothing. And I definitely believe that the Creator is a benevolent soul that loves us regardless of how we decide to live our lives in this world.

Believe what you choose to believe. Just always remember that man has had his hand in the writing of religious texts.

Edit: *I'm

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That was a misspelling on my part. I meant I believe I'm everything and nothing. In the sense that I see myself as the most and least important thing in the Universe. Keeps me humble and thinking about other lives. Thus leaving me the opportunity to be incredibly selfish or not.

There is a balance that has to be achieved. A blending of selfish and unselfish acts. A taming of the Ego. If everyone was concerned with the quality of life of the people around them, one would never have to think about oneself because somebody would already be doing it for you.

I imagine humanity should exist as mold on bread. The individual spores act together as one entity.

The day humans started looking down upon others professions was the day our society doomed itself. In my eyes, a heart surgeon is no better of a career than a garbage man. Would a soldier ant look down upon a worker ant? I don't know for certain but I would think not. There is a lot of judgment passed in society today, that's being subliminally ingrained in our culture, through television shows like American Idol, Top Chef, Toddler&Tiaras, and others. And what does Jesus say about judging?

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You're definitely on it. My favorite is the part about judging oneself before others.

God created all things, but warns us not to worship the created creatures, over God himself, because the devil wanders the earth, seeking whom he may destroy.

Rom 1:20-25 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; (21) for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. (22) Claiming to be wise, they became fools, (23) and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. (24) Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, (25) because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

Could the Devil could have had a hand in writing the Bible?

I have noticed and considered your statement before. By nature, truth is non-inclusive. This means that when God said to worship Him, and Him alone, he was excluding all other gods. False "gods" such as Baal, Satan, the sun, moon, stars, earth, ourselves, idols, etc. did not create the heavens and the earth, nor are they infinite. Only the One True God (YHWH the God of the Bible) is infinite, all-powerful, unchangeable.

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you here. Your statement about God being both good and evil are false. Such statements are an abomination to God. You've been sold a lie. You've been deceived. You clearly have either not read the Bible, or you do not understand the Bible's teachings. You've fallen victim to "New Age" occult teachings.

This understanding was not taught to me by anyone but myself.

God wants humans to do only one thing. It is to use, God's greatest gift to mankind, our brain. Whether it be to blindly obey God or violently defy God. God will be cool with you as long as you're thinking for yourself.

God didn't create this world for us to control each other. God create this world for learning and fun. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is my own personal opinion and could be completely wrong.

Gen 3:1-6 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" (2) And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; (3) but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" (4) But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. (5) For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (6) So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate.

Animals can't do evil, they don't know what it is. Once man had the knowledge of good and evil, nothing was constrained from him and he chose all sorts of abominations, the sickest perversions you could ever imagine, I won't even mention them. God had denied us something that is ultimately destroying us. the bible says that sin leads to death and mankind is infected with sin. if we had never disobeyed god, there would have been no death, no evil and suffering. can you imagine?

Yes. It's nothing that cannot be experienced again if your spirit desires to.

I respect your openness and honesty about how you've come to your conclusions. Have you considered the possibility that you've been psychologically conditioned by various aspects of media and society to take on such beliefs?

I have. I haven't watched TV or even owned one in years. I live in my truck and farm cannabis for a living in Northern California. I hardly even go into society anymore.

To be completely honest, my use of cannabis has led me away from everything society deems normal. I am not a parasite upon this Earth as most humans are. I understand the symbiotic nature humans have with this planet and God.

I've been disgusted with money as long as I can remember. I've never been able to comprehend people's obsession with it. It means nothing to me.

All of my beliefs come from a source within me, my spirit/soul has more knowledge than any book any man could ever conceive of.

I must ask you one question on the Bible. What do you make of God, the all knowing all powerful Creator of everything, walking in the Garden of Eden, unable to find Adam and Eve?

Well, Adam and Eve were hiding from God. Your question assumes that God was unable to find Adam and Eve. They may have been away from God's immediate (spiritual or physical) presence. We have no reason to believe that any created being is capable of escaping God's sight.

I think that is a bit assuming to conclude that there is more knowledge within yourself, than what any man could ever conceive of. Do you know all things that any man has ever conceived? Obviously the answer is no. Because no man could say yes to that.

You did not create yourself. The first man did not create himself. We had to have a creator. There isn't one thing of this world, that created itself. In fact, if you take any single thing of this world, it is a given that it was created by something outside of itself. These are the laws of the world and universe that we live in.

Without humans to contemplate it, what is God? God creates us in order to create itself. The relationship is mutual. You say it yourself

In fact, if you take any single thing of this world, it is a given that it was created by something outside of itself. These are the laws of the world and universe that we live in.

Is it so hard to believe we're all God of our own world and that this reality just so happens to be the overlapping of 7 billion different individual personalities of God?

Think about the millions of tasks your brain does without your conscious mind being aware of it. Is it that inconceivable that you're creating your own Universe without being aware of it?

I got no solid answers. Only theory, wonder, and different perspectives.

God is separate from the universe. He is external. Nothing in our universe creates itself. God is outside of our universe (and the rules of our universe). Thus it is presumptuous to say that he requires a starting point. I am certainly not creating my own universe. I'm going off the Bible's version of the universe.

The question at that point is "How do I know the Bible is true?"

Well, pray and ask God if it's true. Read it and challenge it's teachings. If you take an honest look into questions regarding the Bible, you will see that science and the Bible do not clash. This takes much time and research and I'd be happy to provide some videos that take some honest looks at life and the Bible. Even questioning whether God is good, how the battle between God and Lucifer makes sense, and really gives you a good picture of the world we live in, where it's headed, and why.

When you pray to God and a voice answers is it a different voice then your own?

When I speak to God I find that I end up talking to myself.

God speaks to you through the word of God, and through your spirit. hearing actual words in a voice is very very rare and its never happened to me but i believe god has spoken to me by putting his thoughts on my heart

Give yourself more credit. You put those thoughts in your heart.

theres no way you could know that. sometimes he even gives specific information to two of us at once, with specific information that we couldnt have just thought of ourselves. im talking about even the same numbers coming in prayer. i dont expect you to relate to a spiritual experience you never had though. i used to be more skeptical than you.

We give the information to each other. We are God. Playing hide -n- seek with ourselves. It's a difficult concept to wrap your brain around. Some of us are more aware of being God. Jesus the Christ being the prime example in Christianity. Other religions have their examples for there has been many Messiahs on Earth.

Don't ever limit your Almighty God or the reality it created. To tell me reality exists in only the way your Bible tells you and believe that God would limit itself to be interpreted in only one fashion is ludicrous.

ಠ_ಠ do you believe in objective truth? either we are gods or we arent. either we have the power to create a universe or we don't. you know it was satan that told mankind the lie that they are gods to distance them from the creator? it seems to be working. satans demons work their magic and convince people its of themselves.

You call God he and in Genesis, God is walking. God is a living man. The fruit of the tree of knowledge being Amanita Muscaria. Your Bible's version of the Universe is old and dying. I am apart of God and so are you.

Check out "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception" and "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" they will tell you of the true Jesus that Judeo/Christian doctrine doesn't want you to know of.

He belonged to a psychedelic mushroom fertility cult. Most likely an Essen. But people cannot accept this as truth.

False "gods" such as Baal, Satan, the sun, moon, stars, earth, ourselves, idols, etc. did not create the heavens and the earth, nor are they infinite. Only the One True God (YHWH the God of the Bible) is infinite, all-powerful, unchangeable.

What makes you think there's a difference between YHWH and what you call false gods? Could the belief in a difference be the cause of controversies that result in death and destruction?

What makes you think there's a difference between YHWH and what you call false gods? Could the belief in a difference be the cause of controversies that result in death and destruction?

Failure to realize the difference is more likely the cause of so much death and destruction. I highly recommend you watch the series "Know Your Enemy". You can view it for free on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDGl79x4Pc

Failure to realize the difference is more likely the cause of so much death and destruction

again, what makes you think there is a difference?

Because I've put tremendous effort (and still do) to learn the traits of different "gods" and what they require of their followers.

Those who follow Lucifer are required to participate in rituals and inflict pain on themselves and others. Jesus (who is also YHWH) proclaimed that to love others is a fulfillment of the law. He even taught that we should love our enemies. This is the only God who gives such a command.

I apologize if you were expecting me to sit here and type up convincing explanations for you all day. But unfortunately I do not have time. Please watch the video series that I linked above. Here, I'll put it here again in case anyone else has lost track of where the link was.

Know Your Enemy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDGl79x4Pc

jDub i wouldnt bother with him. he has a bible verse as his username but he's not really after the truth, i know his sort, passive aggressive arrogant questioning with the illusion of curiosity.

Those who follow Lucifer are required to participate in rituals and inflict pain on themselves and others

what makes you think that?

Jesus (who is also YHWH) proclaimed that to love others is a fulfillment of the law. He even taught that we should love our enemies. This is the only God who gives such a command.

what makes you think that?

Know Your Enemy

why would you think anyone else is an "enemy"?

Ever wonder why an all-powerful being like God, who is all knowing and loving, allows for Satan to exist? Not only to exist but to take his children from him? I never quite understood that part.

It's an experiment. You can call it the Duality Experiment or the Lucifer Experience.

Picture this. You are an Angel/spirit/soul with no free will that wants to experience reality differently. You ask God for permission to create a new reality that has lots of things that can be perceived as good or bad depending upon how the particular individual wants to feel about it. God agrees and let's Lucifer create a reality based on the perception of matter interacting with light and the absence of light. Good versus evil.

But why would God even allow for there to be Good Vs. Evil if he's clearly the more powerful of the two? You're saying that our lives are nothing but a Game to God. A game that he already knows the outcome of because he's an omniscient being. He knows everything we'll ever do, what choices we make before we're even born.

I don't see it as much as a game. And we're making assumptions about God. God may know every conceivable path we can take in life but God gave us free will to take whatever paths we choose. It's like those books with multiple endings to choose from. The excitement/pleasure the author(god) gets isn't derived, just, from writing the book. It's also in the wonder of which direction the reader will take themselves through the material provided through said book.

Edit: I believe God is impartial towards good and evil. They are just parts of it's being. It would be like favoring your left lung over your right.

Lucifer=Rudra. This has all happened before at the end of the last world. Let the Buddha's drink the blood. Think of the meaning of the phoenix symbol.

Ignorance and hate are strong within this thread. I usually write exceptionally long replies in cases such as this and would write over 3000 words here explaining every minute detail carefully and logically, but I see that there is really no point in going through all that trouble since so many in this thread have seemingly already made their minds. Downvote me if you will, but it will not change the facts that I am about to point out.

Zyenide presents himself/herself as an expert in secret societies and yet seems to have no idea what New Age, gnosticism or occult are all about. If you people want to know who runs the world, then I will tell you the harsh unbearable truth: it is those who are responsible for Christianity, Islam and Judaism. If you doubt my words, then please explain why all of these religions worship the same God (Gad) called YAHWEH and why all of these are related to ancient Sun worship? One has to be blind not to realize how much Jesus and Ra have in common.

Dear OP, do you even know what Satanism is and what Satanists really believe in? Do you realize that Satan and Lucifer are two different characters from two different concepts? Have you studied ancient Sun and Moon worships and do you realize their connections to Abrahamist religions? I will spare you some of the trouble: Lucifer, also known as 'light bearer' is a messenger of light, today commonly known as a meteorite stone. I am not kidding. Let me explain: Both the Sun and the Moon were worshipped in the ancient times. In pre-Islamic times before Muhammad, Ilah was the goddess of the Moon. According to their ancient religion, Ilah's children were the stars. These people worshipped the 'fallen stars', meteors, as messengers of Ilah. Lucifer the light bearer is a messenger of God. Lucifer, the one that fell from the sky - that makes him a meteor. Then arrived the Q'ran and Ilah's name was changed to Allah. We can still see Muslims bow towards the Kaaba, which in fact has a fallen star, a meteor, in its centre. Do they bow to Lucifer? We can also still see the Moon and a star as a symbol of Islam. Yet these are but remains of ancient Moon worship which was replaced by the teachings of Torah.

Another thing I would like to point out is that until recently the world was run by church and that anyone who had a different point of view was burned at the stake. That is what drove all the other religions, including all the ones based on philosophy, into hiding (occult = 'hidden'). Most of them are based on logic and scepticism rather than blind acceptance. If you think that you should have the power to impose your own beliefs by force on them and upon everyone else, then that makes you unethical and unreasonable. Abrahamist religions have caused more wars than anything else in the world and keep on claiming that their God is good and merciful while being, by biblical standards, the very contradiction of all that. Practice what thou preach, as the saying goes. If chaos and ignorance can be considered a god, then Christians, Muslims and Jews prefer to worship that kind of god over understanding, love and peace. You all should be ashamed of yourself and if you are not, I openly admit that I am ashamed for all of you haters. Please stop hating. If you are looking for an enemy, I suggest you start by looking into your own hearts.

The gnosis is strong with this one. Yes i have studied paganism and sun worship and i can tell you you're spot on about lucifer and islam. Christians will tell you though, we do not worship the god of islam. In fact, when Isaiah mentions Lucifer, the original word is actually Halal, a word which means acceptable under islamic law. The muslims worship the moon God and the catholics worship the sun. Check your local catholic church and see if the alter is at the east, so worshippers face the east. Catholicism is Rome's elite paganism with a christian veneer, this video covers the catholic/islamic connection in greater detail. other videos in his series explore other faiths and how they can be traced back ultimately to the mystery schools at babylon under nimrod, semiramis and tammuz.

so we're clear, i agree mostly with what you are saying, most of the world religions actually go back to paganism and sun worship is strong even within some churches that claim to be christian, mostly greek orthodox and catholic. even the jews have strayed far from the teachings of moses and the writings of the prohets, many descending into man-made talmudic laws or even the kaballah.

the catholic church, the jesuits, the crusaders, the knights templar, can ALL be traced back to pagan rome. when rome realised it was losing the battle with the spread of christianity, they decided instead to adopt it as their national religion, and eventually built st peters square around the obelisk that was stained with the blood of millions of christians under nero. the pope replaced the cesar and the roman empire continued, by chasing the gospel across the world, killing bible believing christians, suppressing the bible whereever they could, making sure it was only available in latin, and killing in the name of the enemy of rome, jesus christ whenever they could.

with regards to sun worship and its connection to true biblical christianity, if you judge by the Romanist church I can see your point, but not the churches of Paul, or the christian churches that set the bible as the ultimate authority. for one thing the bible forbids sun worship so it would be a difficult one to argue towards. Bill Cooper in his mystery babylon series covers what the mystery schools teach in this regard, that christianity is a distortion of their sun worship. Part 1 - Into to mysteries

A huge number of people today believe the lie that christianity comes from pagan sun worship and it is a prevolent teaching within the mystery schools of freemasonry and the illuminati, bavarian or otherwise. The writings of HP Blavatasky, the thesophist who inspired Hitler will confirm this, as well as the work of Jordan Maxwell & Acharya S, which is summarised in the first part of Zeitgiest, a lie-a-minute psyop propagating a utopian world system, and the abolishment of christianity. Elliot Nesch makes a good effort at scholastically debunking every point made in that film about astotheology and the falsehoods within Christianity.

Slightly off topic but I wrote an article about the people behind Zeitgeist and their glaring connections to the United Nations and the Luciferian Theosophical Society. Good read i think. But i would say that, I wrote it.

The gnosis is strong with this one.

Good. I suppose that makes me a wise person then.

First of all, I apologize that it took me so long to reply; a man has to sleep and conclude business' (I fight dragons by shooting rainbows at them). I also took a look into your sources, some of which, just as the Zeitgeist itself, are trying too hard to appear convincing and leave a lot to debate. Please, do not assume anything about my sources since you cannot possibly know of what I have read and seen and what I have not. I also recommend that you keep in mind the list of fallacies whenever you are following a debate or participate in one yourself: it makes things easier for both parties.

If I understood correctly (for sake of the argument: you really lack an ability to clearly put forth a specific point), you are suggesting that most world religions, including all of Islam, some of Christianity and especially New Age, have been infiltrated by paganism, Luciferianism/Satanism and that Zeitgest is part of a conspiracy to create a New World Order's prison planet. I admit that you have gotten many things right and I admire that along with your dedication and persistence, but in my opinion you are still far off. Did you ever consider that perhaps Christianity has not been infiltrated, but that it is the other way around; Christianity has devoured every other European 'pagan' religion?

Christianity did not spread around because everyone unquestionably accepted the word of God, but simply because Christians invaded everywhere and replaced all pagan beliefs with the church of Christ. For this to truly work, Christianity changed itself bit-by-bit to help the indoctrination process. In the process Christianity lost itself. When Christianity tried to conquer the worshippers of Ilah, the moon goddess, the task turned out to be too difficult and so they had to change the bible itself. This is why Muhammad is described to split the moon. They hoped that one day Christianity and Islam could be united. That is what they are trying to accomplish at the moment. Who are they? The truth is that even I do not know for sure. Do you?

Back to point: Upon conquering Europe, Christianity had to change its own image even more. An image of Jesus had to be made (perhaps the reason was that some people required it or perhaps even began making their own images which church found bad for Christianity's popularity). Even though it was a violation of the second commandment, Church itself officially decided to make an image of Jesus. At this point, please note that Islam, that had been earlier separated from Christianity, still holds on to the principle of not making God images. And so came to be the image of long haired white Jesus we all know today. Judging by time and location, and by modern standards, Jesus would have been black. Some scholars claim that this sort of Jesus was portrayed after Pope Alexander VI's son, Cesare Borgia. Therefore nearly all forms of modern Christianity are deep into Luciferianism. Not to even mention all the other contradictions with and even in the bible. The only religion that has somehow preserved its original form is Judaism and in my opinion their theology is egoistic and unethical. Some Zionists truly believe that they are Yahweh's chosen ones and that everything and everyone else on this planet are for them to use and to exploit. In the world of trustful honest people, the kind that Christianity used to raise, evil thrives by cheat and deception; that is what made them the rulers of our society and us their slaves. They are the ones running this show.

But wait, there's more! You completely avoided my question regarding Satanism. It was an important one. Once again I will spare you the trouble and explain: Lucifer is not Satan, but at some point in history Christians began to call Satan by the name of Lucifer (religious propaganda). True Satanists do not recognize Lucifer, although some of Satanists too began calling Satan as Lucifer (not realizing what Lucifer even symbolized). Satanism is not worship of the devil, in fact, it is not a worship of anything in specific, but a worship of nature, equality and one's self. Satanists therefore hold tremendous respect for nature and all life (no, the one's that burn kittens are mentally ill and delusional, those are not real Satanists). Wherein Christians are advised to turn their other cheek, a Satanist is advised to seek revenge in the name of justice. They say that a Satanist is therefore immune to brainwashing that has been going on for so long. Perhaps they are right, perhaps they are not. In this respect many atheist are Satanists. I would even go as far as to claim that every human being is selfish by nature, it is an undeniable part of all living organisms, and therefore it cannot be denied. Philosophy of justice and ethics come naturally to human beings as well: that is why many philosophical religions have acquired similar principles independently from one another. You think that is evil Lucifer's influence? Would you then say that philosophy comes to man via evil even when Philosophy has created most things good such as: equality, science, ethics and moral principles? Would you believe me if I told you that for the most foolish of reasons (nationality) I was once an outcast in the society at really young age and that philosophy was the only thing that pulled me out of the hatred I felt towards everyone? Because it did. It is my armour, my shield and my sword. Without it, I would not be here today.

Good and Evil: These are dualities of morality and life itself. One represents knowledge, happiness, order, stability and peace while the other represents ignorance, pain, chaos, confusion and war. If you are searching for happiness, you should seek for knowledge and learn to tell these two apart from one another. It is not possible to know happiness if you do not know what pain is or vice versa. If you talk about God and Satan, then you should learn to know both to tell apart which is which. On one side we have the Christian God, the one that advices people not to accept anything else but the word of God and not to eat from the tree of knowledge (ignorance), to spread the word of God (intolerance) to live in absolute devotion (restriction) and on the other side we have this other fellow by which bible refers as Satan and a serpent, a god of scepticism(knowledge), unrestriction (freedom) and absolute justice (respect and tolerance). Which one is behind all the wars? Which one brings happiness? Do you really know which one is which? Because if you do not know both, you cannot know.

The worship of one's self is not only attributed to Satanism, it is also present in the gnostic Illuminati, where purpose of life is said to become god. This is what all sciences can be considered to be about: to learn everything, control everything and become omnipotent. It's a utopia – as opposed to dystopia ruled by banks and mega corporations. Here is the ultimate test of faith: If I was to offer you unconditional immortality, would you accept it? Because if we do not destroy ourselves before that, that is what awaits for humanity in the horizon. Ageing is but a process determined by our biological functions and scientifically, it is not absolute. I suppose a true believer in God and heaven would not accepts such an offer.

Here I have presented a lot of claims, some of which are debatable. As perhaps you have noticed, I have also avoided making direct links and succumbing into details. This is because no one's words are good enough to be taken for granted. The moment you start accepting other people's information as granted, you are vulnerable to false information, lies, deceit and propaganda. If you want to know the truth, do not believe what I say, but look into these matters yourself and make your own mind. After all, this is what this subreddit is all about. Good luck.

wow. you have been fully brainwashed by the New Age movement.

There is one major fallacy with what you wrote. You assume that recorded history are the actual facts.

Our history has been manipulated time and time again, for centuries, if not for thousands of years.

That was my exact point. You say it is me who has been brainwashed, I say it is the Abrahamists who have been brainwashed and exploited for the last 3000 years. I am open to hear your arguments if you have any. These arguments would have to be based on logic, not bible text or blind faith. If you can convince me that everything is the other way around, then I will change my mind and turn to whatever belief you want me to turn to. If you do not, then I say that you are either brainwashed yourself or a person that brainwashes other people. And no, I do not belong to any New Age movement or occult. I live by own independent philosophy which I developed all by myself. I then studied everything with open mind and open heart, questioning absolutely everything. So what shall it be?

upvoted for sheer looniness

tl;dr

tl;dr are for people that want to learn less than what others have to offer and promotes anti-intellectualism. Thank you op for not putting the tl;dr.

New World Order IS the New Age.

So you felt strongly enough to post your thoughts on the matter, but don't care to carefully research the topic? "Seems like too much to worry about."

So you like to look at one side of things, and assume it's the only way without looking at other perspectives. If I wasn't laughing at this foolishness, I'd be crying.

translation, but not interpretations. they are different. for example, the website you offer doesn't take into account the numerical/alphabetical duality of the original language amongst other aspects.

You said: I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church. Then you wrote: I was raised catholic but lost faith because of the catholic church. I'm confused. I was raised catholic but i wouldnt say i really believed too strongly. I didn't understand it too much and I realised it wasnt for me when i saw what the catholic church was connected to. However the church in the book of acts and the catholic church are very different so i try and follow the apostles example and stick to the Word.

I'm not lying, if there's an inconsistency somewhere please be aware i've replied to 50 comments on this and might type a mistake here or there. My video testimony is here on private share if you are interested.

Also when i was anti-theist semi-new-ager I had an argument with a christian about why the bible wasn't true and why he was deceived. I'm on the left in black

oh i see where the confusion is. i was a not really practising catholic who lost faith as a teenager. i was an atheist up until i was about 21,22 when i got into the new-age, i believed man had more right to call himself divine than any external god, i thought the answer was to look inward. when i didnt find anything, god showed me i was messing with demons and the more i researched the global conspiracy the more i saw the truth, that the bible is mocked for a good reason, its very very dangerous to satans new world order.

Eph 6:10-13 (10) Finally, be strong in the Lord, relying on his mighty strength. (11) Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the devil's strategies. (12) For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers in the darkness around us, and evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm. (13) For this reason, take up the whole armor of God so that you may be able to take a stand whenever evil comes. And when you have done everything you could, you will be able to stand firm.

Those who follow Lucifer are required to participate in rituals and inflict pain on themselves and others

what makes you think that?

Jesus (who is also YHWH) proclaimed that to love others is a fulfillment of the law. He even taught that we should love our enemies. This is the only God who gives such a command.

what makes you think that?

Know Your Enemy

why would you think anyone else is an "enemy"?

EXACTLY

jDub i wouldnt bother with him. he has a bible verse as his username but he's not really after the truth, i know his sort, passive aggressive arrogant questioning with the illusion of curiosity.

I don't disbelieve science, nor did I say that. Why are you putting words into my mouth? I just disbelieved the current tennant of science which blames genetics on way too many things and issues. That's ALL. Why are you generalizing me as disbeliever of science for simply disbelieving one out of millions of scientific theories? THAT's illogical bro. And narrow, like any other generalization.

Also, I never said homosexuality is "unnatural". Putting words into my mouth again? I simply said it's sinful. Sinful != unnatural. They are NOT, by any means, synonyms. For example, lust is also a sin but it's clearly natural. Told you 1000 times, you're not talking to a southern Evangelist here, so don't put their words in my mouth. It's almost like you're trying to convince yourself that I'm illogical simply because I have faith.