[deleted]

I agree, though i must also say that being fearful, cynical and negative about the situation also serves their agenda. Some optimism helps to balance things out. My faith that things will work out comes from simple common sense, that is that the powers that be will do themselves in, out of sheer greed and drunkeness of the power they have usurped.

[deleted]

Putting trust in the scriptures can be as risky as putting faith in aliens. As i have heard many Christians say "the devil is a crafty one".

I hold myself to a lot of Christian ideals; I got there through plain logic and a sound moral compass. I've always been interested in the religious beliefs and mythologies of previous cultures, so I tend to look at the bible in much the same way. How much is literally factual or not matters much less to me than the concept that Jesus Christ is absolutely the best role model humanity has ever had.

Despite that, there is something rolling around in my head that keeps me from considering myself an actual "Christian" who follows the bible as it's presented. Putting an exact date on when parts of the New Testament was written is tricky, but it seems to have been somewhere between 40-150ad. This is quite a while after Jesus' execution. Before Constantine declared Christianity the state religion a little after 300ad, Christians were constantly persecuted and harassed.

I'm quite sure Emperor Constantine converted purely for political expediency. The upper class had a virtual monopoly on literacy for a long while, so is it such a stretch to think that the bible had been edited here and there by the various ruling hands that were responsible for it?

I look at the Roman Catholic church through history and see virtually nothing Christ-like about it. They hoarded wealth and luxury while the peasantry labored and died young, they sent them to wars without end and kept everyone in total ignorance and under harsh authority. The papal lineage is full of absolute greedy scum-fucks who forced their version of Jesus and the church on the people, and then used it as a tool to secure power over their lives, their wealth, and their minds. And all the while they were pretty much the guys who were translating and making the only available copies of the bible.

I would not be surprised at all if the versions of the New Testament available today have very little to do with the factual accounts of Jesus. Getting a version of the book written in the original Greek would be an invaluable thing. But I would bet that if any of it survived the ravages of time into today, they are locked away in some Vatican vault, never to be shown to a public eager to ask questions.

http://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/s9hd3/dmt_anyone_feel_like_sharing_their_experiences/c4csqmm

there's something here, I think

[deleted]

You start off correct, but then you put some serious blinders on.

I would more-or-less agree that it can open access to the "spirit realm", although not always. What you are mistakenly assuming is that this realm is full of nothing but evil. Think of it more as a place where there could be good or evil, or neither... imagine randomly touching down on Earth, you might encounter something nice or something nasty, or nothing at all. You might see a nice mountain vista, or be dropped at the bottom of an outhouse. etc.

One might be weak-spirited, and subject to manipulation, like the New Agers you decry. Ever heard of SaLuSa? Or one might be strong spiritually, and able to laugh off or otherwise handle encounters with negative entities.

If you want to do an interesting little "study" one day, look up the word for sorcery (and related concepts) in the Bible and see how they relate to "drugs" (as we call them these days).

Yeah, a so-called "study" because you'll just be reading some ignorant fundamentalists' rant about what they don't understand. Tylenol is bigger "sorcery" than DMT, are you going to suggest we "study" a rant about evil pharmaceutical companies? I doubt it. DMT is in your blood, and you can pick plants to boil a tea and drink it. Not sorcery. Unless you want to call coffee sorcery too. The only reason you fear it is because it was discovered by "shamans", you hate "pagans" and you are intolerant of anything not of your religion.

Seriously, think twice before spouting off dangerous misinfo:

These things probably pioneered the use of plants, and other substances, millenia ago - even instructing humans on what to do - and use the humans' trips to their own advantage.

Total speculation and assuming the worst.

Why don't you try it, or talk to someone who has, before pretending you are an expert? You can be a scared little wimp and cover your eyes and ears and run away, or you can man up and face reality - you're gonna have to sooner or later.

[deleted]

I meant a study of the scriptures (in the Bible) regarding sorcery, the words, and their meanings. Not necessarily the commentary of a person, but the scriptures themselves which are the inspired words of God. If you don't like that, too bad I guess.

I have looked into this. Show me a scripture that says ayahuasca or DMT is sorcery. You can't, because you'd have to interpret it in a crazy way that would make everything, even lemon tea, into the devil's brew. Not to mention alcohol - a much more "sorcerous" process, which the Bible condones. I think sorcery is something much much different than making tea from plants.

But thanks for replying to my post... i have weighed what you said and will try to respond to you further when i have more time.

[deleted]

Your link says this:

The root meaning of this group of Greek words is 'druggist' 'poisoner' or, 'giver of potions'. These particular 'sorcerers' were persons able to prepare and dispense potions. But why did they dispense these potions? Was it in order to give relief from illness? Absolutely not! It was in order to stimulate hallucinations or visions! We must understand that it was long part of pagan religious practice to administer potions, or drugs, which would encourage hallucinations!

This is an amazing leap of logic here. I could have said "Absolutely not! It was in order to... get you to watch reality TV!" I could add in anything there, there is no connection between the bible passages (which he did not quote) and what he claims.

Here is an interesting rebuttal: http://neweden.org/Drugs-and-Sorcery.htm

Even IF sorcerers were using "drugs" to summon evil spirits, that wouldn't mean "drugs" are bad/evil. It's like saying "hey i hit you over the head with a hammer, therefore hammers are evil". Guess what? DMT is just a molecule, it is nothing special, it is merely a tool that can be used or abused, just like a gun, just like a hammer, a sword, anything. So if you focus on the bad, then you put blinders on to the good.

But the most damning rebuttal is from the Bible itself.
http://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t005.html If "drugs" allows access to both demons and angels, and not just demons, then you have a problem. Because your logic is basically saying that angel contact = sorcery. And if an angel has contacted me, I am therefore a sorcerer. FAIL. So if you were to use DMT (produced by your own God-given body!), with NO intentions to contact an angel/demon, and you contacted an angel, are you therefore a sorcerer? Hell no.

http://christiananswers.net/bible/mat4.html#11

Even Jesus came into contact with angels, so you will have to say Jesus is a sorcerer too, right? No. There is angel contact all throughout the Bible and it is not condemned. Nor does it say "thou shalt not contact an angel after drinking tea".

What if DMT is the bridge between material world and spiritual? What if it is the answer we've been looking for, the hard proof that links science and religion? What if you could be touched by Christ, witness God, and be healed by angels through this stuff? What if Satan is doing his best to stop you from experiencing this?

Look, we agree there is a spiritual reality, and it is populated with demons and angels, and whatever else the fuck exists in that space. It's nearly incomprehensible to me. I am not an expert. And I accept your doubts that DMT space is that same space. Maybe DMT space is just an evil trick. But the FACT that it is WITHIN US makes this scenario pretty far-fetched. Sorry, I am not THAT paranoid.

So what are we to do? Cover our heads and cower? Plug our ears, la la la, and hope for the best? Run to our priest and plead with him to condemn the pagan druggies? Fuck that. We need to take action. Light workers? We need Light Warriors. We need to clean up this demonic bullshit and kick their asses off our world.

Satan wants our ignorance, so evil spirits can roam freely. We affect their reality more than we realize. Our spiritual ignorance is Satan's best friend. Certainly there are great dangers, but there are dangers everywhere. Danger does not mean give up, it means try harder. Want to be a spiritual warrior? Please be one.
God knows this world needs more. We are far more powerful than we realize. All we have to do is overcome our fear and stand our ground.

Finally: http://www.christiansagainstprohibition.org

[deleted]

Let me take one last stab at this, since my last reply was knee-jerk:

*

 Medicine, plants, drugs, substances can be good and useful. No medicine, plant, drug, or substance is inherently evil or bad.
*

Agreed.

 Initiating contact with spirit entities is foolish and dangerous. Not every spirit tells the truth. Your link (http://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t005.html) brings up the point "Sorry! You can't trust every angel", which is exactly correct.
*

Agreed.

 An angel bringing Jesus (or anyone else) a message wasn't sorcery. Someone making their own effort to contact a spirit is.
*

Yes, it wasn't sorcery, but my point is you can't condemn someone as a "sorcerer" merely for contacting an angel. That is silly.
Only if one purposely summons an evil spirit - that is the definition of sorcery.
If you were to contact Jesus, it would not be sorcery, since he is a good spirit. This is a hypothetical situation. Not saying it can be done, nor saying it should be done.

 No one needs to ingest anything in order to contact God. [Jesus said](John 14:6) the way to know the Father was through Him alone. It is a spiritual transaction - not physical. Not one molecule of anything is required. It's a matter of personal choice, acceptance and belief.
*

Not one molecule of anything is required.

I'll agree with you, on an energetic level you are correct, but in material reality you are completely wrong. Your body is made of molecules, your eyes your heart your mind. DMT is another molecule in you, that, if one were to scientifically postulate how contact of God/Jesus through a physical body is done, it would be via the DMT in your blood. This is what I mean by the scientific bridge. We've discovered it, the cat is out of the bag now. Personally I am excited about the good possibilities for humanity (assuming the satanic-pyramid empire doesn't stamp it out or control it for nefarious purposes).

 "So what are we to do?" Good question. Every person is responsible and accountable for their own self. We have no need to seek after hidden knowledge from aliens, angels, dead people, or whatever. The action that everyone needs to take is to [be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth](1 Timothy 2:4).

We have no need to seek after hidden knowledge from aliens, angels, dead people, or whatever.

I agree, but you miss my point. We need to defend ourselves from them. And ignoring them won't work.

When I explain to you that this stuff isn't inherently evil, and you come back with "its sorcery!"
You sound like someone who is afraid of microscopes, like we just invented microscopes and no matter how it's explained to you, you come back with "but you can see viruses with it!" Well it could also be used for good, to create penicillin, etc. DMT is the new microscope. You can choose not to use it, your choice, but to condemn others for exploring it is absurd. The proper advice is to give caution, because if you simply blanket condemn, then people will (rightfully) ignore you.

At the end of the day, I do share your concern, that this stuff is being used maliciously. But please understand that many righteous folk are also exploring it.

the end of my rant

Contacting a spirit, angel or otherwise, isn't the reason (most) people use DMT. It is a potential side-effect. And most people don't even think it is possible. So you can go on and on about it being sorcery, but you are just deluded, sorry.

but the scriptures themselves which are the inspired words of God. If you don't like that, too bad I guess.

The problem with the bible is that it mentions multiple gods (multiple times) and for you to say everything outside the scripture is evil is pure ignorance. DMT is a chemical in your brain that is released when you go to sleep. Have you not done your research?

[deleted]

DMT is also a chemical that people ingest in order to go on spiritual/hallucinogenic trips. Have you not done your research?

Thank you Captain Obvious. Everyone already knows that if not most.

but I think it's the foremost example of people using a substance to open spiritual gateways.

I see where you're fear stems from reading the bible but, fear is the mind killer and when you give in to fear you've already lost the spiritual battle. The war still wages on for those that let go of their fear and keep going.

Have you ever done DMT...or even concentrated (crystal) DMT?

It's a mad trip period. Nothing spiritual at all, It is just your brain secreting the chemical that induces dreaming....Thus conscious dreaming.

I hate the whole "lets take DMT and see god dude" shit.

You should listen/read to Graham Hancock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4k8pdJ2so4 - info about supernatural beings and the "spirit world" that people have experience when drinking Ayahuasca (DMT drink from the amazon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4k8pdJ2so4 Info about the ancients

I respect your opinion, but object to some of your observations. To me, it seems more likely to be Aliens posing as spirits or deities.

[deleted]

Not necessarily. Humans both lie and tell the truth to each other on a daily basis, yet there is still a level of trust that exists between most of us.

And my basis for saying the it is an Alien is based on my love of Science. I can tell that you are more of a spiritual person, and I can respect that to a point.

I simply refuse to believe there is anything in the Universe which is unexplainable, and an indefinite mystery, which is why I have never believed in Gods, deities, spirits, unicorns, etc.

Personally I believe that an Alien would choose to express itself as a divine being for one of two reasons. Either it is an issue of vanity and narcissism, or it is for ease of understanding.

Hopefully it is the latter.

[deleted]

who is to say that spirits aren't just another kind of alien? they are being from another dimension afterall.

[deleted]

practically every "advanced" ancient civilization ( Sumerians, Mayans, etc...) has a story of beings coming to earth from the sky, teaching them advanced technology that was readily available for use, and then the sky beings leaving for one reason or another. another prevailing motif in these stories is the sky beings desire to mate with human women and creating monsters like the giants of the bible. when you look at it from a "sci-fi" perspective, instead of a religious or mythical perspective, most of these ancient texts sound a lot like extra-terrestrial influence on ancient society. the bible even has abduction stories when you consider the prophet in the old testament that was swept up by a chariot of fire.

It would logically appear to us as a spirit or god because we defined the word upon meeting them.

I am aware of no god or creation myth that doesn't include the descent from the sky of what we would call an alien. We seem to have distorted the original definition of god to the extent we don't realize what we were trying to originally describe.

Read the lost books of Adam and Eve, and replace garden with laboratory on a ship. As adults, they didn't know how or what to eat, what poop was, what darkness was, etc. It's like they grew in a test tube and were released on a planet.

Ah! I see your point of view now. I'm really quite sorry I misjudged you.

I feel rather arrogant now.

Not everyone believes in ghosts, and it is far more likely that there is life on other planets than there is a spirit world.

But I think this whole conversation is just fucking kooky.

it is far more likely that there is life on other planets than there is a spirit world

Cite your sources and provide proof, or shut the fuck up.

I'm not the one claiming that there are spirits. I don't think you understand how burden of proof works.

Why must everything be written on paper for it to be true? Where is the faith??

Why must everything be written on paper for it to be true?

Not everything written on paper is true. I have no clue what you're talking about.

Where is the faith??

Look, you can believe whatever you want, and I'm going to believe whatever I want. And honestly, I only believe one thing: that belief stops a thinking mind.

I have seen absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the existence of spirits. I have seen absolute evidence for life. If life occurred on Earth, and there are trillions of other planets out there, surely one of them also has life.

Therefore, it's simply much more likely that alien life forms exist than spirits.

Yes and No. There are different kinds of beings in the astral world that can be considered aliens,deities or gods.

Reptilian shape shifters?

precisely

Please stop posting Thrive.

Something like this?

Good to see another who came to the same conclusion.

It's a nice thought. Realistically, what a load of shit.

I've watched Thrive 3 or 4 times now and came to some conclusions about it, religion, consciousness and what the hells going on in our world.

I posted it in r/atheism but didnt get much response. Please have a read and see what you think!

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/s8md5/my_thoughts_on_it_all_its_long_and_my_first_post/

I read your post and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I too turned to atheism about the time I entered high school and was convinced that living in that mindset was the only rational way to live. Until recently...

My friend and I have been talking about events that were described in the Thrive video and connected the dots. We both concluded that the "coincidences" that have been occurring this year were not coincidences. The destruction and corruption that you read about in the news, the more people separating themselves from organized religion, etc. are not coincidental. I believe these events are happening for a reason (And yes, I too cannot explain this to the vast majority of people without looking like a nut case). Those of us that are "awakening" to this reality are the ones being chosen first to explain this to others around us. This isn't to start our own religion and profit from it, but to show people that if we do not compromise and love one another humanity as we know it will not exist in the physical world for too much longer.

That being said, I'll go back into my little hole. Once again, I enjoyed your post and it is incredibly unfortunate that r/atheism bashed the hell out of it. I am all for the scientific method and thinking rationally based on concrete evidence, but there are some things in the universe we are not meant to fully realize YET. Cheers to you, sir. Health and prosperity.

Thank you for taking the time to read through it. I appreciate it was a long-ass post but it feels good to know someone else has read it and didn't think I belonged in a padded room :)

It feels good to know there are other people in the world who have seen it from the same perspective as me.

I don't dispute this, but I'm afraid it's wishful thinking to some extent. This change doesn't have to go down hard, but it will, because we are at the very bottom of the Kali Yuga. Humanity, as it exists now, must respond to the revelations of the apocalypse with vigorous violence, and it will attract violence of some sort from the cosmos, which it will certainly respond to with utter gracelessness; the energy of the age drives the animal mind to it with great force.

The harvest of this last, most intense phase of the age is very small, but of extraordinary quality; this is why God allows such depredations as we are coming to know to occur; only 144,000, according Lord Pacal and other prophets. But the events of 2012 are only the beginning of the end of our world; mother Earth is no stranger to labor pains; every leap forward in evolution brings her great distress.

Putting trust in the scriptures can be as risky as putting faith in aliens. As i have heard many Christians say "the devil is a crafty one".

Not everyone believes in ghosts, and it is far more likely that there is life on other planets than there is a spirit world.

But I think this whole conversation is just fucking kooky.

Not necessarily. Humans both lie and tell the truth to each other on a daily basis, yet there is still a level of trust that exists between most of us.

And my basis for saying the it is an Alien is based on my love of Science. I can tell that you are more of a spiritual person, and I can respect that to a point.

I simply refuse to believe there is anything in the Universe which is unexplainable, and an indefinite mystery, which is why I have never believed in Gods, deities, spirits, unicorns, etc.

Personally I believe that an Alien would choose to express itself as a divine being for one of two reasons. Either it is an issue of vanity and narcissism, or it is for ease of understanding.

Hopefully it is the latter.

Why must everything be written on paper for it to be true? Where is the faith??

I hold myself to a lot of Christian ideals; I got there through plain logic and a sound moral compass. I've always been interested in the religious beliefs and mythologies of previous cultures, so I tend to look at the bible in much the same way. How much is literally factual or not matters much less to me than the concept that Jesus Christ is absolutely the best role model humanity has ever had.

Despite that, there is something rolling around in my head that keeps me from considering myself an actual "Christian" who follows the bible as it's presented. Putting an exact date on when parts of the New Testament was written is tricky, but it seems to have been somewhere between 40-150ad. This is quite a while after Jesus' execution. Before Constantine declared Christianity the state religion a little after 300ad, Christians were constantly persecuted and harassed.

I'm quite sure Emperor Constantine converted purely for political expediency. The upper class had a virtual monopoly on literacy for a long while, so is it such a stretch to think that the bible had been edited here and there by the various ruling hands that were responsible for it?

I look at the Roman Catholic church through history and see virtually nothing Christ-like about it. They hoarded wealth and luxury while the peasantry labored and died young, they sent them to wars without end and kept everyone in total ignorance and under harsh authority. The papal lineage is full of absolute greedy scum-fucks who forced their version of Jesus and the church on the people, and then used it as a tool to secure power over their lives, their wealth, and their minds. And all the while they were pretty much the guys who were translating and making the only available copies of the bible.

I would not be surprised at all if the versions of the New Testament available today have very little to do with the factual accounts of Jesus. Getting a version of the book written in the original Greek would be an invaluable thing. But I would bet that if any of it survived the ravages of time into today, they are locked away in some Vatican vault, never to be shown to a public eager to ask questions.