i have NEVER, i mean not even once, seen someone who believes in chemtrails who can also explain to me how cirrus clouds form.

the reason being- if you understand how clouds form, you do not think it's a smoking-gun-in-sky when you see a lingering contrail. that means that the only people i've ever found who believe in it are at best ignorant of atmospheric conditions and basic science, and at worst gullible morons.

see, downvoted yet no explanation given. my statement still holds true.

consider this a challenge to chemtrail believers to offer a clear, concise explanation of how clouds form, and how that differs from chemtrails. i propose that you cannot do it because if you believe in chemtrails, you do not understand this concept.

How do planes flying at lower altitudes than cumulus clouds create "cirrus" clouds then?

lol, do you think you just posed a clever question?

cirrus clouds can form at around 15,000ft in pretty much all of the united states. in warmer weather it goes up a little higher, 20,000ft-25,000ft.

how high do you think commercial airliners fly? are you trying to tell me that they don't fly any higher than 20,000ft?

I just asked how cirrus clouds could form underneath cumulus clouds? How can one plane's contrails persist and spread out while another plane in similar altitude has a normal contrail that dissipates in less than a minute? Why do some contrails have abrupt starts and stops? Why do many of the planes with persistent contrails not show up on any flight tracking software? Why do so many patents exist to enable this technology if it's not being used? Why do the proposals to deploy atmospheric aerosols that supposedly combat CO2 look exactly like what the sky looks like today?

1. atmospheric conditions are not constant. they change wildly from different altitudes and due to different types of terrain, like hills, lakes, etc.

2. i'm no engineer, probably has something to do with changing wind/humidity conditions in relation to the throttle and altitude

3. i don't believe that, sounds like paranoid superstition

4. a shitload of patents aren't used for anything, just to make sure that if anyone makes money off of it, it'll be you

5. if what you say is true, why keep it a secret? combating global warming would make companies or politicians into the good guys because they'd be helping to stabilize the climate. the only situation i can think of that would cause someone to be secretive is if it were being done by groups that outwardly claimed that climate change is a myth.

so basically, i'd say stop reaching for circumstantial evidence. i haven't come across any informed people who think that this is an issue, at all.

now it's time for my questions. why do you think that only ignorant laymen (not meant as an insult, i mean people actually ignorant of meteorology) think that this is an issue? why don't trained scientists notice that something is up? if this were so unnatural and so strange, why don't more learned people seem to notice or care? are you trying to suggest that there's a giant conspiracy in which every college professor is towing the conspiratorial line for some reason? i mean i know what subreddit i'm in, of course you are, but do you realize how ludicrous that sounds?

1. Doesn't explain the question. Weak.
2. You already know this explanation is...Weak.
3. You never looked. Weak.
4. That IS possible, but when hundreds of patents exist that build on top of each other, the evidence points in another direction. Weak.
5. How did they keep the Manhattan Project secret for so many years with thousands of people working on it? People don't care because they still would never suspect something like this, even though they know about skywriting, crop dusting and the long history of the government conducting experiments on unwitting citizens.

If you can't understand something so simple as the government wanting to control the weather and if you don't understand that the military does things without your knowledge or approval, then I really do not know what else to say to you. You are going to be the one who has to deal with the heavy metals building up in your body. Good luck, buddy.

i'll tell you what i understand- you're ignorant and pathetically paranoid.

I appeal with logic and you repeatedly use ad-hominem attacks. Your lack of curiosity and and reliance on assumptions makes it clear to all that you are indeed no engineer nor a scientist. Have a good day and keep drinking the Kool-Aid!

'Chemtrails' are Contrails.

Thank you, Mr. Wizard.

You can influence more people by remaining an honest questioner than by becoming an expert.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that the moisture coming out of airplanes doesn't disappear? V I know what's in those (them) chem-trails that makes them persist and why "they" are trying to poison us.

[a real company](www.weathermodification.com)

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/CourtesyScottStevens.jpg

During WWII there were, for a short time, chemtrails (persistent contrails) over Europe as part of the war effort.

Chemtrails never appeared in American skies until 1996.

You will not find any evidence of persistent contrails here before that.

Pre Chemtrail discussion by dotgov http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/epubs/doe/nbb0092t/nbb0092t.htm

I'd refer to Case Orange compiled by the Belfort Group (including aeronautic engineers and experts in atmospheric interactions) which seem to indicate that engines at this day in age military and civil airplanes should not be producing so much particulate matter which would allow for these persistent cloud formations. Hope the link helps.

http://imgur.com/5rtHA

After years of observation under the most favorable conditions contrails shouldn't linger longer than 1 hour.

The key difference is their viscosity and diffusion rates into the atmosphere.

A contrail that lingers stays cohesive like a cloud while a chemtrail always diffuses into a spindly viscous substance in the sky.

Should consider asking this question to other subs as well. I can assure you there aren't any experts on this regularly checking this sub.

Right, no degree and no job in the field means you obviosly have no say in the conversation. Thanks for all your useless input, as always, Biggles

Sorry when did I say that? I said he should ask other subs AS WELL, because asking a niche sub (like this one) by itself, you won't get a wide variety of answers. Did you ignore the fact that I said as well?

I simply used the "there aren't any experts in this sub" as reasoning to ask other subs as well, since he's looking for opinions

My statement actually encourages discussion, just on a more broad scale than just this sub. There are other subs he could ask this question to, and get other opinions. I dont say that youre not qualified to discuss anything if youre not an expert. I say that no one here is an expert...so he shouldn't be asking just this sub if he's looking for a wide variety of replies.

Your comment is actually infinitely more useless, as all youre doing is misreading my comment.

I understand how many people hate my posts, but at the very least you could not read my posts implying some sort of intention im not making. Ask a question if youre not sure what I mean, dont tell me what you think im saying. im sure if I said ask other subs "instead" id understand your reply.. But I actually say "as well" meaning - leave your question here, but ask others. The conspiracy theorist rule: question everything, critically think. Limited your discussion to just here isn't going to give you the best option for critical thinking and a wide range of discussion.

Thanks for fanboying me though, as always, random person i dont know, who knows me.

I love you still though, despite your ignorant condescending comment.

I would hardly describe my disdain for your voice in r/conspiracy as fanboyism, but it really should've come as no surprise that you would revel in any sort of notoriety. Your grammatical assertion of being correct really has no bearing on the intent of your comment, and anyone can see what you really meant with a quick view at your history of nay-saying and disregarding anything and everything posted in this sub, but hey, whatever makes you feel important and correct; that's all that sociopaths really care about anyway.

I actually agree with a lot in this sub :) You just aren't looking very carefully. I also have a conversation (that you should read) in this sub about the effectiveness of posting in a thread where you already agree with the notion.

and anyone can see what you really meant

No, what I "really" meant, was what I said. Putting words in my mouth doesn't make you correct, it just makes a conversation between us impossible.

I think there a lot of people here who have spent a good chunk of time researching chemtrails, but I do think that if he wanted a more broad discussion, he should ask other subs as well.

That is very clear with my opening statement.

You telling me I meant otherwise just means you want me to be saying something else. That's cool, but it doesn't make it accurate.

I will say though, that a lot of "serious" discussion I have, about things I agree with here, I usually do in private message.

If people didn't make drastic assertions, I wouldn't disagree with them.

I'm all for the discussion of chemtrails on this sub, but his question does not relate solely to the conspiracy side, so I think if he wanted a variety of answers, he should have also submitted this to some other subs.

Again, that is incredibly obvious with the words "as well" being in my original post - which if you turn off your blind hatred towards me, you should be reading that as, in addition to this sub, you should ask some other ones.

Your grammatical assertion of being correct really has no bearing on the intent of your comment

Alas, intent is a sticky situation. In 10,000 nights and 10,000 days, you could not prove my intention. Just as such, I could not prove your intention with anything you're saying. By putting words in my mouth, you're simply not arguing against me, you're arguing against what you want my words to mean. I am incorrect very, very often. But in this case, you're arguing that what I said, is not what I meant. Unfortunately, I do feel the need to defend myself when someone tries to argue against me, by being outraged at the "hidden intention" of what I said.

I believe he will get some good answers here, but most of it will be opinion, so he should ask more than one sub this question.

I'm sorry that you feel the need to insult me (again) because you misread my post, but hopefully you can get through your disdain for me and we can become the best of friends.

I'm not sure if you know what sociopath means though, but I'll give you a pass, as it's clear you already know everything you want to know about me =P

Once again, I do love you, and I'm sorry that my comment rubbed you the wrong way and made you feel it necessary to take my words other than what they were. I don't blame you, I am skeptical of many asinine threads here, as I feel as they are just people flocking from GLP/ATS/etc and posting crazy threads here. But that doesn't mean that I don't have similar feelings and thoughts as you, I'm just much more vocal about what I disagree with.

I really wish that if you had a question about the intention of my post, you would have asked, rather than inserted a condescending sarcastic remark. And then didn't subsequently insult me for being offended that you so, based on a belief of what you "think" I meant.

<3 :)

You'll find this broadcast about contrails from 1980 interesting. Note no chemtrails involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6X5QZDQ6mw

When you see patterns in the sky that linger all day, like this, it's deliberate and with purpose. I consider that an example of chemtrails.

When there is just one stream in the sky and it dissipates very quickly, I consider that a contrail.

You can really tell the difference; contrails are much smaller, semi-transparent, and dissipate in minutes. Chemtrails are dense and fluffy, and dissipate in hours. Also, contrails are always going someplace, whereas chemtrails never are.

Chemtrails stay in the air while Contrails dissipate within minutes.