r/conspiracy: What is Zionism.

What is Zionism.

17 2012-06-27 by [deleted]

I am a bit confused.

We hear this term thrown around in this sub, often in response to allegations of anti semitism. i.e we are not against jews just against zionism.

What is zionism? Is it the establishment of a jewish homeland or something more than that. It seems that some feel that it is more, perhaps a wish on the part of some jews or perhaps others to control the world.

33 comments

12 krugmanisapuppet 2012-06-27

simply put, Judaism is a religion founded on the doctrine that Jews are the chosen people of "Yahweh." look no further than the stories of "Exodus" to see how this doctrine has gained historical momentum. only "reform Judaism" has made any major moves towards moving beyond this doctrine - that, and Judeo-separatist movements, like Christianity, which rejected it altogether (with some minor exceptions).

thus, Zionism is the nationalist realization of this doctrine, with all the violence and "sub-race" genocide that entails. it's like any other movement of ultranationalism, founded on the idea that one race or group is "superior" to another, except that the supposed "superiority" has not only a vast historical context, but also the idea behind it that the supposed "superiority" is divinely ordained.

once you understand how it's grounded, you begin to understand exactly what's going on with the "macro" effects you observed from its presence in the real world. nationalism of any kind always creates mass violence.

4 BougDolivar 2012-06-27

Asking what a Zionist is on this subreddit is like asking a hardcore republican to define a liberal. You're gonna get an extremely biased and unhelpful answer from people who have given their own definition to the word.

The fact is, at the core, Zionism is simply the belief in a Jewish homeland and Jewish self-determination. That's it. It does not mean you believe in occupation. It does not mean you support murder or war. It does not mean that you are religious. It does not mean you hate Arab/Muslims. It quite simply means you support the concept of a Jewish state as a homeland for Jews. The same way Palestinians believe that they deserve their own Palestinian state.

How that state is run is a different story. Even though Israel as an enormous range of diversity in its political parties from communists and religious right wingers which disagree with how the government should be run, they are all Zionists since they believe in Israel as a Jewish state.

3 thegreenwookie 2012-06-27

Around here I believe it has a different meaning or context than it's literal definition. Zionism is normally referring to Israel being a holy land for Jews and for Jews to return to their land to avoid persecution by other religions and non-assimilation into other cultures.

Here I think people are referring to Zionism as elitism. Or superior race type stuff.

I could be wrong though.

2 fishforbrains 2012-06-27

Actually, Zionism, historically speaking, did not have to do with just Israel. Many places were considered as prospects for the Jewish homeland including Uganda and Texas...

1 tommygunyeah 2012-06-27

I believe you are correct there. The term does get thrown around a hell of a lot here as elitism. But it is believes of Israel being the Holy Land from what I have read I think.

But it seems a lot of Zionists are in high levels of power especially involved in the Olympics.

1 Ibondservant 2012-06-27

Close but not quite correct.

2 tommygunyeah 2012-06-27

Could you explain a but further for me please?

I wish to learn more into Zionism so I grasp a better understanding of the stories using the term. If you don't mind :)

3 Ibondservant 2012-06-27

Basically if you read my responses below, Zionism is a political movement aimed at supporting Israel thats basically what it means when people use it. And everyone knows who controls Israel (well by everyone I mean a lot of people on this subreddit lol). Its all revealed in the zionist plans why they do this you will learn more of the term zionist who they are and what they are trying to accomplish as you delve in your search for the truth. Here is a nice website I found: http://Jewsagainstzionism.com/

2 StringyLow 2012-06-27

From that website:

THE HISTORY OF ZIONISM & JUDAISM

"The Zionist movement which was formed at the latter part of the last century, sought to endow the Jews with a nationalistic character which was heretofore strange to them. It sought to deprive them of their historically religious character and offered in substitution of faith in G-d and adherence to the Torah, and belief in their ultimate redemption by the coming of the Messiah, a nationalistic ideology and the possibility of establishing through political media, a Jewish national homeland."

1 TheGhostOfTzvika 2012-06-27

May I suggest some reading for you?

A History of Zionism: From the French Revolution to the Establishment of the State of Israel, by Walter Lacquer

New Essays on Zionism, edited by David Hazony, Yoram Hazony, and Michael B. Oren

A History of the Jews, by Paul Johnson

The Course of Modern Jewish History, by Howard M. Sachar

I don't have any connection to Amazon and don't get paid to shill for them.

1 Ibondservant 2012-06-27

These "Jews" (i.e., The Rothschilds and other ruling families) are not really Jews btw so don't be swept away by the oh you anti-semitic piece of trash blah blah blah there not even semitic guys. There history is right in front of your face just like most truth is.

1 thegreenwookie 2012-06-27

But it seems a lot of Zionists are in high levels of power

Right. I have a feeling Zionism was, intentionally, intertwined with Judaism so they can immediately call anti-semetism on anyone opposing Zionism.

You see this in America with the über Christian/Catholic sects with things like "being for gay marriage is against god" and things of that nature. Not as extreme as Zionism but the same nonetheless.

3 fishforbrains 2012-06-27

Multiple meanings to multiple groups.

1 [deleted] 2012-06-27

Would you care to elaborate on this?

1 fishforbrains 2012-06-27

Like most words, it can mean different things to different people. Zionist Jews and Non-Zionist Jews would react differently to the idea of Zion or Israel.

0 Ibondservant 2012-06-27

also true the term can have so many meanings the main meaning Most people focus on is...

An organization of Jews whose goal is to create a nation for Jews.

0 Ibondservant 2012-06-27

true

3 bumblingmumbling 2012-06-27

Seriously your username is hiddenhand and your flair says "Probably a disinfo agent", but you don't understand who the Rothschilds are and what the Zionist political movement is?

3 ImJulianAssange 2012-06-27

Zionism is Racism

Supremacism is the belief that a particular race, species, ethnic group, religion, gender, sexual orientation, belief system or culture is superior to others, and thus entitles those who identify with it to dominate, control or rule those who do not.

Zionism v Judaism

The Zionist Story

The Roots of Christian Zionism

2 [deleted] 2012-06-27

[deleted]

1 wearetheromanz 2012-06-27

explain...

1 [deleted] 2012-06-27

[deleted]

1 jlowry 2012-06-27

Is this why the hexagon and six sided star is seen in Masonic/Zionist structures?

http://www.google.com/search?q=hexagon+saturn

1 nefarion 2012-06-27

Zionism is a mask for the Jezebel spirit. Ie Zionism is being used as a cover by Satan worshipers (vatican and associates) for their advancing of global unification (nwo). They want to regain power like in the good old dark ages.

There are many masks and many lies. But that's how i would do it if I didn't want to get caught. Push the zionist agenda to make progress toward global war and then when we are all (public) really sick of the zionist we are supposed to blame the Jews. We should be careful to understand who and what is being exploited and why.

2 bakedphilosopher 2012-06-27

Jew here: Up until Theodore Herzl there was no interest in creation of any type of "Jewish state". As a matter of fact, most Jews, especially those in Eastern and Central Europe found the concept of building a "Jewish State" as blasphemy. Until the holocaust most Jews were opposed to Zionism. Especially practicing Jews.

The Enlightenment came to Jews later than the rest of Europe. It was called the Haskalah. At the time when national identities became significant, the Jewish question arose. While most Jews were interested in being considered equal with their European compatriots. There was a famous question asked whether if Jews served in national armies, would they kill Jewish soldiers? In the past Jews were forced to pay a tax instead of fight. Check out the famous case of Asser Levy.

With the advent of Racial Eugenics and tensions in Eastern Europe, Zionism was proposed. Zionists argued Jews were not Europeans but instead descendents of Israelite that fled the sacking of Ancient Israel. Using this, they proposed settling in Palestine. There were 4 large exoduses of Jews prior of the declaration of independence. The movement was primarily Socialist and secular and there was no intention of making a state there since Ottoman Authorities never forbade Jewish access to Jerusalem, Sfad etc. Nor did they mind the trickle of Jews did emigrate to the Levant in the centuries prior to the founding of Israel.

In 1917, in exchange for financially backing England during the First World War, The Balfour Declaration was written out to Walter Rothschild promising England would help the "Jewish Zionists". what that really meant, was my religion, and my culture were basically sold out to bankers.

With Zionism hijacked, Abba Ahimeir, created Revisionist Maximalism aka Revisionist Zionism in 1930. Nazism arose in Germany in 1920. In 1933, Hitler began making laws against Jews. This became the key opportunity the Rothschilds had for forcing Zionism down the Jewish masses throat. German Jewish banker-Zionists seemed oddly quiet as Hitler came to power. The Zionazis used the hectic time to steal the possessions of European Jews who promised to settle in Palestine. They even had a chance to bankrupt Hitler but decided not to since Hitler allowed some Jews to flee to Palestine.

In Palestine, Zionists of all schools of thought were admiring Fascism and Racial Superiority and began using it as a tool for Zionism. Arabs, who had been no threat to Zionism, not became the thorn in its ass. The Stern Gang Some Jews who had emigrated to Palestine became critical of Zionism and its ruthlessness and became themselves targets. Check out Israel De Haan. A Homosexual, Dutch, Orthodox Jew, and part founder of the Orthodox Anti-Zionist movement. He was murdered by the Irgun. As were many other outspoken critics of Revisionist Zionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_HaBirionim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Ahimeir

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism

After the 6-day war, some people began to believe that the war was a miracle. This became the basis for modern orthodox Zionism. Israels building of settlements was seen as Manifest Destiny. God helped Israel win her wars, God gives her the spoils. In the 70's Zionism went further militant as student of Jabotinsky, a fire-brimstone Zionst, who is praised being a violent Jew, gave birth to Kahanism. Which I am fairly familiar with since I am related to Meir Kahane (Y'M). Kahanism believes that Israel should basically be a Theologically driven, Fascist state. Anybody who Isn't Jewish. So besides Muslims and Christians, Kahane included Secular Jews, Anti-Zionist Jews, Heretic Jews, Atheists and basically any other Jew who didn't conform to his standard. With him, and his Never Again bullshit, he formed bands of Anglophone religious Jews who think carrying a gun and gawking at Arabs makes them tough.

And here we stand with Zionism today! :D

I thought an actual Jewish perspective was in place, hope I could be of help!

1 [deleted] 2012-06-27

[deleted]

4 BougDolivar 2012-06-27

This is a horribly biased and inaccurate answer.

I'll explain why for those who are genuinely interested in learning.

You start off somewhat okay by suggesting its the belief the Jews have a right to a homeland. But you go completely off track by attaching certain negative personalities traits which are in no way inherent in this simple belief. It would be like describing conspiracy theorists as 'People who ask question and don't accept the official word as fact.' but also adding 'these people are paranoid, off base, delusional, and can't accept facts that go against their preconceived notions'. See where I'm getting it? The first part is true, but the latter part is derogatory and not an inherent characteristic of being a conspiracy theorist. All those negative traits I listed don't come along with being a conspiracy theorist nor are they in anyway connected with being one.

Zionists also believe that any actions, no matter how dispicable or criminal, are justified in insuring this self-preservation.

No. Being a Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with believing what you just described.

What you gave was actually the definition of offensive realism and/or Machiavellian Realpolitik - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_realism

For practical purposes, the federal government of the United States is Zionist. It now uses torture, assassination, kidnapping, unlawful detention, and overt acts of terrorism in pursuit of its political policies, even though these policies do not involve the survival of the American people.

What?

So torture, assassination, kidnapping, unlawful detention, and overt acts of terrorism make one a zionist? Russia, China, most Arab countries in the Middle East and countries around the world engage in a similar fashion. By this definition you're giving all these countries are zionist in nature as well.

Almost all Zionists are Jews; but you do not need to be a Jew to assert or support the Zionist ideology.

So what percentage of Jews would you consider to be Zionists?

1 tttt0tttt 2012-06-27

Zionism is always centered around racial paranoia. The Zionist believes that the very existence of his people is under immediate and constant threat of extinction. He uses this belief to justify any and all criminal acts against those he imagines to be his enemies. We see this every day in the leaders of Israel, with their paranoid propaganda war, and their actual terrorist campaign of assassination and industrial sabatoge against Iran, a non-aggressive nation which does not threaten Israel in any way.

My main point was that the US federal government has been infected with the disease of Zionist ideology at the highest levels. It has become paranoid about the survival of the US and the threat of non-existent terrorists, and lately about the imaginary threat of armed insurrection on its own soil. Meanwhile, it goes on killing innocents with drone attacks, torturing people, holding people indefinitely in prison with no access to any due process of law, and spying on its own population under the belief that they represent a threat to the state. This lunatic paranoid behavior is Zionist in its underlying dynamic.

If you can't understand my points, well, that's too bad.

1 iameha 2012-06-27

http://www.youtube.com/user/drdduke/videos

At least watch a few of his videos before you start hating

1 Ijob911 2012-06-27

Plain and simple: Zionism is trans-national Judeo-supremacism, and the agenda to institutionalize it.

1 tttt0tttt 2012-06-27

That's a good short definition.

1 Rothschild_Agent 2012-06-27

Zionism means we're right.

-4 [deleted] 2012-06-27

[deleted]