How does Sorcha know this information and no one else does? What other evidence is there to link Holmes' father to Libor? If you eliminate Sorcha's claim based on her lack of credibility, what other information is there?

EDIT: I'm upvoting this because I would really like to see someone answer the question. If you eliminate Sorcha Faal's claim, What credible evidence is there that links Robert Holmes to the LIBOR testimony? Is he on the list of people that are/ were scheduled to testify? I assume that list should be public knowledge.

If he was considered an expert, why wouldnt he STILL testify? Just because his son became a homicidal maniac? If you are requested to testify, you cant just say "no thanks, I dont want to"

There is no other evidence. OP's idea that Holmes has some relevance to a LIBOR hearing depends on a chain of very doubtful assumptions.

-First, that Holmes's work on software on credit card fraud and identity theft has some relevance to inter-bank lending and interest rate manipulation. FICO's website indicates that this software, Falcon Fraud Manager, tracks where credit card holders buy stuff and flags potentially fraudulent transactions. ( http://www.fico.com/en/products/dmapps/pages/fico-falcon-fraud-manager.aspx ) The OP claimed to have seen evidence that this software instead "tracks the flow of money after it is issued" or something similar, but refused to provide a source for this claim when challenged.

So maybe Holmes wrote some kind of other software that would be relevant to LIBOR, or maybe this software does something secret that's not listed on FICO's website? Maybe? This is all supposition.

-Second, assuming that there is some tangential link, that Holmes would be deposed for a LIBOR hearing. Aren't there people who have direct expertise in the issues surrounding LIBOR - interest rate manipulation and interbank trading - who would be more likely to be deposed in a hearing? Particularly in a criminal trial, an "expert witness" without direct expertise is likely to come under extremely intense scrutiny and be rapidly dismissed.

Holmes works for FICO, a company that does credit scoring for individuals in the United States. The OP is claiming that he would be a likely target for deposition in a case involving large financial institutions in a foreign country. Why? Because some sort of fraud was involved. This is a really tenuous connection and there would be hundreds of people more qualified to testify in such a trial.

So maybe there's some connection that we don't know about. Okay? Maybe possible?

-Third, that a hearing or trial even exists. As pointed out in this post by drunkenshrew, there is no plan for a U.S. Senate hearing, and the hearing on LIBOR in the UK parliament doesn't list Holmes as a witness.

So maybe there's a secret hearing, or one whose details haven't been released, but the witnesses for which have already been identified?

Any one of these could be true on its own, but for this theory to make any sense they all have to be true at the same time. OP would have you believe that he's proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Holmes was likely to be deposed as a witness for some sort of LIBOR hearing, but... well... judge for yourself.

Im guessing by the way you summed everything up that you are a lawyer with some solid criminal law background. If not, you should definitely consider the career path.

This is one of those rare instances where I agree with someone posting something in /r/conspiracy.

Your response was well researched, laid out logically and made sense. Therefore, you must be one of those anti-conspiracy pro-government shills that they always talk about infiltrating this subreddit.

Upvote to you, sir!

Very interesting, you clearly browse the conspiracy subreddit but admittedly believe that people should not post conspiracy theories in this space, yet you whole heartily endorse this skeptical comment. If you would like to avoid conspiracy theories all together might I suggest removing the subreddit from your homepage?

No, there is nothing wrong with posting a THEORY about something. The problem is that fanatics in this subreddit take these theories and then - through the magic of the internet and hive-mind thinking - mutate them into being allegedly incontrovertible facts.

This subreddit exists to entertain me by displaying half-baked opinions usually formed from a complete lack of evidence. I enjoy reading the latest moon hoax or ancient Martian lifeform theory, then doing my own personal research to learn the actual reasons for something. In a way, these crazy concocted ideas encourage me to learn and grow as a human, and therefore I consider this subreddit required daily reading.

Hm, I'm trying to find a way to phrase this so it isn't condescending (it might come across that way but please keep in mind my intent is something different) but I think you might be engaging in some projection. For example, you seem to be equating discussion with agreement. While I'll see occasional fanatical posts I think people are generally good at pointing those out and also add in that some of these more "radical" things are people attempting to do some discrediting. Your perception seems to then support this idea that your better/smarter and people who think differently then you should just serve as your entertainment. I mean I like to find out the stories behind things too but I think your rationale for inquiry limits any chance for discourse.

...that your better/smarter and people who think differently then you should just serve as your entertainment.

You're* Than*

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

Ha:)

I can't speak for everyone here... but in order to find the truth to a situation facts need to be studied and ideas presented and absorbing them as gospel shouldn't happen until the information is, at the very least, coherrant. Putting pieces of the puzzle together so that they make a picture that looks the way existed prior to the pieces being scattered is imperative. Though I do believe that the shooting has some EXTREMELY suspect details omitted and absurd circumstances and direct questions that have not been answered truthfully this theory is one that needs ironing out. Regardless of the person who presented the theory it has given some people motivation to try and establish validity and possibly uncover more details in the process. You're being a skeptic to skeptics. It's necessary. It is that kind of discourse that creates plausibility or deniability. The back and forth about 9/11 backed by witness accounts, expert information, and basic physics has solidified into something plausible. This is an early stage conspiracy theory... naturally people come of as quacks early on because they tend away from the TRUE hive mind provided by news sources (and sometimes they are just quacks). I think what is important is that they are noticing discrepancies with what they are being told, they want it fixed, and they know they can't count on it from the higher-ups. If you want to "grow as a human" disregard the "fanatics" pick a side and provide the information necessary to disprove or prove as you feel inclined. Viscount has done the service of using common sense to lay groundwork for possible research, but what we are lacking at the moment are verifiable facts pertaining to the situation. Get on it fuckers.

You're being downvoted....for saying we need to study the facts and figure out what really happened? What the fuck is wrong with this subreddit? Some days I see the most thoughtful conversations on things and then others if you even mention the word evidence you get downvoted to hell.

Some conspiracy theorists are in it for the stimulating porn like aspect of conspiracies. I must admit there is a part of me that enjoys it too. The idea that there is something amiss is so much more appealing than trying to make sense of everything that makes no sense whatsoever. One of the bad things about reddit is that content is often down voted because someone doesn't agree with you. I usually downvote if someone is insulting and not contributing or aren't funny with their insults even if they aren't contributing. But you can downvote for whatever reason you see fit. Great thing about the interwebz. You're still free to do somethings. I think the best bet would be to get in with the locals and see what the hell they think happened. I mean it's clear that JH is not himself. Red hair aside he barely looks like the JH from previous pictures and videos. It's almost like he's a new person. That shit is just weird to me. I know from working in the psych field that physical characteristics can change as a result of trauma.. but I've never seen this applied to bone structure. In the end I'm not sure what was to gain from the whole of the incident. That's what I'm most curious about because the other pieces should fall together if there was something of substance to shoot for... no pun intended.

Well said. Upvote!

I can't answer the testimony question. Here is a link to a report that is not based on Sorcha Faal (who I hadn't even heard about until I started seeing all this). This just shows how he could've been tied in and speculates based on information from his LinkedIn page. Apparently there is a James Holmes Wiki and this has a page on his dad. No mention of a pending testimony there either.

The Sorcha Faal article is supposedly based on a Russian Ministry of Finance report (no explanation on how she received this) which says that Rober Holmes was scheduled to testify.

I have yet to see any credible evidence that a Senate Panel was subpoenaing witnesses or scheduling testimonies. So, I can't really elaborate on those final questions because it requires too much speculation without knowing whether or not there was this Senate Panel...where is this Russian Ministry Finance Report...etc...Someone else may have better information on that or it might just be a hoax.

As to your final point about the news I think you are expecting a little much out of today's journalism. While I don't think the entire news bureaucracy is conspiring there are plenty of examples of press releases being passed on wholesale, whether its politically related or not. Also, it may not be possible to get someone to speak out on the issue. If this conspiracy theory were true I'd hardly expect Holmes or FICO to comment.

Also, consider that the 24-hour news networks particularly build off narratives. Its not like only 2 or 3 compelling stories exist at a time, but this is generally how their coverage works and this coverage trickles down to the ABC's and NBC's and CBS's etc...(print journalism is at even more of a disadvantage in my opinion). You have an event, that event spawns a few narratives, explore those for a bit, and thne move on to the next one. So the shooting has its narrative, but now that narrative has ended because it was the Olympics and now its the election cycle narrative. A lack of coverage could simply stem from the reporting has moved onto elsewhere.

There are a lot of ways to effectively kill a story. So, if you don't really have anyone talking and, as in this case, court documents are sealed there also really just isn't anything to report. So, the chance for developments to occur is minimized and naturally the story loses its momentum.

And why is no other news outlets talking about this?

If you say something about "lamestream media being told not to report on it" you really have no idea about how news works.

I see that in your comment you are introducing an element of doubt (though I believe that encouraging us to disregard an opinion on the conspiracy subreddit, by mentioning that the mainstream media isn't covering the story is completely asinine) and attempting to subject the OP to ridicule with your line about "lame stream media". Do you understand that what you are doing is prime tactic that disinformation agents use to detail a thread? Why don't we examine the facts that we have, draw reasonable conclusions, and bing as much attention to the issue as possible?

because thats not how you bury something.....

Why don't we examine the facts that we have, draw reasonable conclusions, and bing as much attention to the issue as possible?

Because based on the overwhelming amount of posts here, that is clearly not how /r/conspiracy works. Opinions are not facts. Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got one.

...you are introducing an element of doubt (though I believe that encouraging us to disregard an opinion on the conspiracy subreddit, by mentioning that the mainstream media isn't covering the story is completely asinine) and attempting to subject the OP to ridicule with your line about "lame stream media".

I did that merely to avoid someone making the standard /r/conspiracy reply that mainstream media doesn't cover such stories because their globalist/ Zionist puppet masters wouldn't let them (or some equally ridiculous explanation). The reality seems more likely that mainstream isnt covering the suggestion that Robert Holmes was going to testify in the LIBOR hearing because there is no credible, verifiable evidence to suggest that. And most legitimate news agencies have a standard of ethics that they have to follow, while anyone with a blog can spout off whatever poorly-conceived theory they want without any thought to ethical standards.

oh, so you don't think the media is rigged?

a couple thousand years of sycophantic coverage of every dictator and corrupt politician in the world disagrees with that idea.

but please...go on with your rant about how everyone who thinks the good guys aren't in charge is insane. i'm sure it's totally safe to dismiss an entire region of human thought by pointing out one or two faulty ideas at the periphery.

please explain how the media really works.......

Well I cant speak for EVERY news agency (cough * FOX * cough) but for most credible services, the process involves collecting information and distilling that into a summary devoid of personal opinion or bias that can then be disseminated to the public, so they can then discuss and debate the information to reach a logical conclusion based on verifiable facts, and not just conjecture or speculation by the person delivering the information.

I mean ideally that's how it would go, and sometimes you have every part of a newsroom working in that direction but from a historical perspective its usually the opposite. Just starting at the early days of Yellow Journalism you had knowingly shoddy reporting. This hasn't improved much with the conglomeration of sources, either. So you have cases like the Iraq War. But I don't think the media has been able to serve as the Fifth Estate since the need for newsrooms to actually make profits and conglomeration.

I agree with a lot of what you said. credibility and fairness in reporting is a rare commodity, but to have every news source - even the extremly biased ones like FOX news - exclude information as big as "Holmes father was going to testify in LIBOR hearing" tells me that the claim is bogus and has no foundation in reality.

I would say at least consider that stories take time to develop. It took about 3 years for the full scope of Watergate to develop...imagine if this sub and the blog-o-sphere existed then. I speculate that a great deal of posts would have existed on it before it hit the presses.

You are all over this thread like a fucking rash. You are coming across as a shill, frankly.

Indeed the claim is likely bogus. And yet, ironically Sorcha is automatically a disinfo speicalist and now I know you are as well. Thanks for your explanations. They were very helpful.

LMFAO not sure if serious.....

What credible evidence

tl;dr: Nothing in the above post is relevant. I've dismissed it all without looking at it.

Again what credible source do you have that links Holmes to Libor and him being scheduled to testify?

Again what credible source do you have that links Holmes to Libor and him being scheduled to testify?

tl;dr: Sorcha Faal, LOL.

He's not on the potential witnesses list yet. So what?

So what that it was Sorcha Faal that shined the spotlight on this.

In the grand scheme of this whole picture - the chronology of events - Robert Holmes is relevant, Sorcha Faal is not.^*

James was a top tier student. went to CU. LIBOR scandal breaks. James drops out, becomes "lost" in a haze of fog. Becomes an accused mass murderer... but... it's just a coincidence that his father has all of this relevant expertise in tracking financial fraud that might be relevant to the LIBOR scandal.

We don't have to connect Holmes or FICO to LIBOR - that would make him a suspect, not an expert witness in the area of tracking financial fraud - wholly relevant to the LIBOR scandal.

His linkedin page is a credible source of information about his expertise, as well as the known info about the software and systems he was working on.

EDIT: sentence fragment pointed out by the troll, SutekhRising, in his obfuscation below.

So what that it was Sorcha Faal that shined the spotlight on this.

Sorcha Faal is a crazy loon. I have a very hard time considering her as a credible source of information on anything she says. Her information is about as factual as a psychic looking at tea leaves.

In the grand scheme of this whole picture - the chronology of events.

That's not even a complete sentence.

James was a top tier student. went to CU. LIBOR scandal breaks. James drops out, becomes "lost" in a haze of fog.

How are the two events related? Holmes had been planning this attack long before the general public even knew what LIBOR was. This is utter nonsense and a HUGE jump to conclusions with absolutely no evidence to connect the two events. But say it in /r/conspiracy and a flood of like-minded theorists will suddenly believe it all makes sense.

His linkedin page is a credible source of information about his expertise, as well as the known info about the software and systems he was working on.

I know a lot about firearms, close quarter fighting and police tactics. That doesnt mean Im going to walk into a theater full of people and start double-tapping everyone I see.

Don't even bother arguing with homegrown. In his world evidence/logic against what he has predetermined to be correct = "obfuscation and distraction"

And if his karma starts dipping enough he'll just delete his comments.

obfuscation and distraction. Sorcha Faal. LOL.

I'll fix my sentence. I didn't complete the thought, so what.

Holmes had been planning this attack long before the general public even knew what LIBOR was.

And you accuse me of rank speculation?

Your last sentence has no bearing on anything.

You aren't even a good troll.

Go away

You show signs of paranoid schizophrenia. Might I suggest seeing a psychiatrist?

PSYCHIATRISTS ARE IN ON IT TOO, MAN. THOSE PILLS ARE REPTITE EGGS, MAN.

Don't you mean Jew eggs?

Now dude, don't do that. I like you, if nothing else, you have interesting viewpoints. Don't resort to childish behaviors. :(

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're a shill.

Thousands of people disagree with me, what about them?!

Those ones are most definitely shills.

HEY! This is no place for that line of thinking!

[deleted]

a movie with a message

What movie did you watch? I watched the one where the gangs of evil insane people attacked the innocent job creators, then an attractive white guy used his inherited billions to beat them all up and restore the status quo for great justice.

I mean it was all good fun, but hardly calling for a revolution.

movie with a message

What message? That the third Batman movie was doomed when Heath Ledger died? What does that have to do with a shooting?

I'll tell you what we know about the financial scandal, there are no credible sources in a ring of fraud and deceit.

Wild speculation today becomes truth in due time, be patient and keep an open mind.

We can probably look back before the "housing crisis" and hear the same type of speculation that the bubble was a scam to save the banks. Those people would be called completely crazy until the articles come out about how it WAS an actual scam to save banks.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/us-treasury-admits-it-conducted-circular-ponzi-scheme-years

"Transfer one more conspiracy theory into the conspiracy fact bin."

We're running out of room in that bin.

[deleted]

Because of this key detail, software that detects fraudulent transactions, i.e. the software that Robert Holmes worked on, would miss this instance of fraud entirely because it does not even look for it. It just has to do with what the software does and doesn't do.

His software isn't being called as a witness. This is obfuscation. What his software does is irrelevant to his expertise in the field.

The rest is trivialization beginning with the "so what" introduction.

I don't adore you, peetie_p.

Transmission terminated.

[deleted]

I didn't say that either, but I do see your leap.

His software isn't what's relevant to the LIBOR case. His expertise in financial fraud is.

FIXED.

surely if you don't want someone to testify, you don't mind control them into killing a load of people because that will inevitably mean that every single thing about them gets scrutinised?

Stop it with this LIBOR shit. There is no evidence he was going to testify or there was ever a hearing. There is only the fact that he was making software to detect financial fraud and nothing else.

Your Frothing at the mouth denial only makes me more suspicious and inquisitive

I hope this is a joke.

There is only the fact that he was making software to detect financial fraud and nothing else.

And, LIBOR is about financial fraud... and, you know... detecting it.

LIBOR is not a consumer credit card fraud scandal.

I understand where you're coming from, though. You read the Sorcha Faal article, you got excited. Everything finally tied together! Then you find out the article is a joke. Dammit! But your conformation bias starts tingling, and that feeling of blowing the lid off a huge conspiracy is just too alluring. So how do we get back to that feel-good place when you just found that the smoking gun was made up?

It sucks man, I know. But you're going to have to provide me with some evidence to back your claims.

Asking Robert Holmes to testify on LIBOR would be the equivalent of asking a replica civil war cannon maker to testify on pistol ballistics.

Edited for iPhone autocorrects.

Point, laugh, mock, ridicule.

I didn't read the Sorcha Faal article. Haven't ever even seen it, except for excerpts quoted here.

I didn't get excited over it when it came out, because I didn't even see it or hear about it until last week.

I simply noticed the invasion of interlopers who gangrushed this subreddit on Friday to BURY this story.

Get over your persecution complex, please.

But it's all he's got! Take that away from him and he has nothing!

I think you're just blowing a lot of people's minds.

There is no link. Your just making this stupid. Sorcha Faal is where the LIBOR story come from and there is nothing else anywhere to suggest it is remotely true. Sorcha Faal is not even his real name. He just makes stuff up and prints it, people jump on it and make everyone look stupid.

Sorcha Faal, LOL. DO NOT LOOK AT ROBERT HOLMES AND THE CROOKED BANKSTERS. EVAR!

FTFY.

I'm not saying don't look at Robert Holmes, I'm saying the LIBOR thing is fabricated. None of Sorcha Faals stuff is ever true. He's a disinformation writer and his real name is David Booth.

[deleted]

It's another person in this sub who continues to misguide a topic with bullshit and clinging on to it whilst pushing it to the maximum. Yes, that would be a big deal IF his dad was to testify but there is nothing anywhere else about it apart from repeated write ups and people jumping all over shouting OMG!

Correction, he must tell some truth at times, but only so that his lies can be more robust. In this instance, however, he is almost certainly lying.

We know about Sorcha Faal, okay. That's old news.

He takes bits of fact, mixes them with unprovable claims, disseminates it as "OMG The shit's hitting the fan now!"

But, the key here is... he takes bits of fact.

The LIBOR witness theory is, at present, just a theory (a hypothesis, actually). A theory that hasn't been disproven except via "Sorcha Faal. LOL. Herp derp."

And you're one of them presenting that argument (argument from ridicule).

The only witness list released was a tentative one, because there is not yet a senate panel selected for an investigation (all of the Sorcha Faal claims). The fact that he's not on a tentative witness list, for a non-existent-but-potential case, does not mean that he's irrelevant to the LIBOR investigation.

We, here in this subreddit, get accused of a lot of logical fallacies, but this one... this "bury any references to Robert Holmes as a potential witness to bankster fraud" is BULLSHIT. It's the most suspect act of gaming in this subreddit I've seen since I joined 2 years ago. It's the hottest, most active, corruption of this community in my entire time here.

And, you're defending it. Why? What's your stake in this? Why do you care whether or not we speculate on possible theories and connections?

Sorcha Faal said it, so you have to dismiss it as a default falsehood and never look at it again. EVAR.

Alex Jones said it and he's a Zionist shill. So, you must ignore every bit of news that comes from any of his websites.

You aren't here investigating. You're here shouting "DO NOT INVESTIGATE THIS LEAD. EVAR!"

Did I summarize that pretty well, /u/HouseOfHouse?

relax, people are going to troll you if you put yourself out here like this, every time i come in this subreddit you are beating this idea into the ground, like i told you yesterday, that which you are defending so vehemently is but conjecture at this point. If you feel passionate about it, go prove it up, but you have got to understand that repeating an idea doesnt make it a fact. Go find the fact and report back, but please stop martyring yourself, you are really asking to be trolled.

repeating an idea doesnt make it a fact.

Wait. You're accusing me of doing what they're doing now, simply because I am exposing what they're doing?

Fuck. Whose side are you on?

Paranoia- A mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically worked... Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.

You really need to chill man, people can disagree with you, all you are doing is repeating this rumor over and over, the less intelligent someone is, the more likely they are to believe in superstition rather than facts and knowledge, ironically, those with very high intelligence are also prone to illogical conclusions as well, because they tend to rely on INTUITION too heavily. Im not sure where you fit into all this but you really need to look up trivium and quadrivium and the kybalion and reteach yourself how to intake information and reach conclusions, good luck, im going to leave you alone now.

You do sound a bit like a broken record.

I have no idea who this Sorcha Faal dude is, but that seems to be the only source of evidence you have, which certainly doesn't mean you are wrong, but still. One source of evidence makes you harder to believe. And you can use that to your advantage. Find other sources that can't be traced back to Faal. If people start claiming the exact same things about whatever source you have...then you may be onto something. Right now it could just be that the 9 or so people that you think are disinfo agents could just have a personal bias against Faal. But if they start saying the same things about any new evidence you bring up....then you can be suspicious, then you might be onto something.

He takes bits of fact, mixes them with unprovable claims...

But who are you to pick and choose what part is fact? Couldn't the "fact" part be "yes he works at FICO" and the unprovable claim be "He was going to testify"? Who are you to tell anyone they are wrong when you fail to even see the possibility that you, yourself, may be wrong? These are honest questions I am asking here. I like Mulder in the sense I want to believe, but I need real info before I can. If that makes me a "shill" or a professional troll paid by TPTB, so be it.

So stop talking shit and prove it.

I agree that some of the people you listed may be actively trying to deny things, but you also need to account for the fact that some people may just be misinformed and not part of something bigger. This is the reason we need to post evidence for our claims. Those who are misinformed cannot be convinced by calling them "shills" or "sheep" or anything else, they can only be convinced by proof.

Plus, once you have amassed evidence of your claims, you can more easily point out those who are just denying things left and right since they will deny no matter what evidence you throw in their face. Someone that is just misinformed or is simply of a differing opinion will at least consider your argument and evidence.

[deleted]

one of the reasons why those posts get downvoted is because users living in other countries

It's interesting that you should say that. I observed my comment karma during the (US) overnight hours, and compared them to (US) daytime hours.

Daytime, my comment karma was going down... all day yesterday. I went down about 100 points yesterday total.

Woke up this morning and I had regained about 80 of those points.

So, the US was downvoting me during the day, and other countries were upvoting me during the night. I found that kind of interesting to observe.

Then, today, I lost another hundred in one hour this morning.

I've been holding steady at around 3200 all day today. Up until about an hour ago, every comment I got was receiving a downvote within one or two minutes. I'm just monitoring. Despite what the detractors say (LOL you paranoid), I'm confident there's some gaming of this subreddit going on -- on this specific topic.

Then, much to my surprise, just a little bit ago, someone (one of the "skeptics" who decided to participate) noticed this.

MY BITCOINS NOOOOO

Welcome to the club, this happens to me every single day.

When America sleepeth, my karma groweth!

You might be right, like I said - im not following the case closely. Anyway here is an upvote.

Robert Holmes absolutely is testifying. This is a known truth. Those asking for "evidence" are outsiders to this subreddit and should be dealt with quickly with banning and comment deletion. We can't provide evidence to the very people who are obfuscating and destroying evidence. We won't play your game. Our truth is better than your evidence.

I simply want proof. The shooting was very suspicious and even if it has nothing to do with LIBOR it is still very strange and reeks of a cover-up on some level at least.

Our truth is better than your evidence.

The show me your truth! I want to see it, I really want to feel validated for my paranoia! I know that our leaders lie to us, but I want to see the proof!

Keep fighting the good fight HomegrownTerran.