Can't wait to see this all dramatized in some distributed crowd-sourced documentary series after it all comes down. (I'm being optimistic here.)

After what all comes down?

I've read George Bush Sr himself was seen at the airport before John Jr took off. Seems to have been an altitude triggered bomb planted in his plane.

I have bush jr and sr... But ppl put Sr in places as if he is Snidely Whiplash hiding in the bushes about to pushdown the plunger. Dude is corporate.

People like him enjoy being involved in the nitty gritty.

It never actually even matters if he is or isn't there, in terms of the theories, but holy shit do people get hung up on it one way or the other

Except he WAS in Dallas and misremembered

I've seen some analysis of that picture, fairly compelling. But, like I was saying, his presence or lack thereof has no actual bearing on the theories. It's gravy.

Except... Wasn't he in Tyler tx?

2 hours away

Reason for the down vote?

Reason for the down vote?

Because your fact conflicts with their Truth.

So you should be downvoted for stating bad information on what down voting is suppose to be used for ... Is that what I understand?

So you should be downvoted for stating bad information on what down voting is suppose to be used for ... Is that what I understand? P.s. I had posed a question not made a statement. research puncuations.

Downvotes should be handed out very rarely. Sadly that isn't the case.

I def didn’t touch your post

He initially said it must have been another G.W Bush, when his name popped up, lol.

Nobody makes it to the head of the CIA without being involved in shady shit.

Citation needed.

Kennedy Jr. was popular as fuck too.

Most Kennedy's are. I think This one is getting popular, too. I think he might run for 2020.

If he makes it that far, i think people would vote because of his name alone.

the first red haired president, that'll be the day

You know our first president had red hair, right?

i'd consider it more golden blonde than red

Ok, also Jefferson, and probably Jackson and Van Buren.

As a male with strawberry blonde hair, people have no idea what color to call it, and saying "strawberry blonde" feels mad gay

Why not try 'beach bum blond' or 'bloje blond' or 'surfer gold'?

"Reddish-blonde" or just "red-blonde."

I mean, to ungay something you just make it not fruity, right?

"African sunset" is my preference.

No, he had a thick white mane. Everyone knows that.

Our real first president was black, black hair, right?

Nah, we've had like 7 red haired presidents, sorry. The Ginger Mafia wants you to conveniently forget that fact.

Is the Ginger Mafia an actual thing or just a joke?

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.

So, yes...

The devils spawn runs far and wide.

Thomas Jefferson for one.

Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_redheads :

Andrew Jackson
Calvin Coolidge
Donald Trump
Dwight Eisenhower
George Washington
Martin Van Buren
Thomas Jefferson

Trump???

This country twice elected a Kenyan socialist. You think anyone will give a fuck about electing a soulless ginger?

Andrew Jackson had red hair. In fact a lot of presidents had red hair.

george washington was a redhead

Worked in Canada

Wasn’t a big issue about the family dynasties?

Kind of different, no? also, if you put the work in...

It is different. You are right, and I like this guy. He speaks with empathy. Most politicians don’t even bother now.

hopefully the kennedy curse doesn’t get him.

Is it really a curse if the shadow government is just trying to erase your bloodline?

It certainly doesn't sound like a blessing.

The fact that bloodlines are a thing in American politics is the actual curse.

Exactly this ^

What is this country? With bloodlines in power we might as well be under rule of the Queen.

You're always going to have political dynasties in a republic. Same thing happened all the way back in Ancient Rome. The capital required to run for a House or Senate seat is enormous.

So replace the republic with direct democracy

Long live Presidenty McPresidentface

Or just abolish the presidency and replace it with an executive council.

Same thing happened all the way back in Ancient Rome

Ehm well that is because it's the same bloodlines ruling today..

Bloodlines create a genuine form of trust bonds among powerful people - I trust the American form of it over the tit-for-tat bonds that create machine politics.

Are you kidding me? The same bloodlines is also the same that worship satan(saturnus) and "eat" kids..

Oh, I didn't mean the establishment or the "illuminati" if that's what you're referencing. I meant middle and upper income families trying to raise their own right and who are up and coming in business and/or politics.

Aiight got it.

Luckily we have the power to say fuck your bloodline

Sadly it resulted in Trump but hey

Yes

He's taking one of the senate seats in 2020. Either liz or markey are going to be out of there in 2020. Maybe both of them, but I[ll bet it's liz's as that was teddy's seat.

Don't think he's going to run?

Not for President in 2020, no. Later on, after being a Senator? Probably.

Alright. Would be weird though; voting for a Kennedy for President!

It would. I'm not closed to the idea at all either. Don't know much aboutt this one though. It looks like Caroline's son is going to gett into the family business too.

He's a good orator, so he got those genes I guess. Other than that he seems to be a Democrat.

Jack Schlossberg? He's got the genes. Just look at him. That is the best looking 20 something I think I've ever seen.

I don't like his face at all, but to each his own

Jack Schlossberg vs. Jack Jr

My point is mostly that he will have the same if not more interest from the vapid celebrity world than Jr. did making it soooo much more likely that hed win a race. The name, the money, the free press...

From the "Celebrity Section" of People already.

Impressed?!?...by what? He didn't say a damn thing and neither did his mother. If your impressed that he was polite and congenial and that would cause you to vote for him then I don't know what to tell you. Looks like the typical path of a lifetime politician that he is following shrugs

Are you intentionally ignoring what I said?

I was impressed. He was not intimidated or interested in being esttablishment-ish at all.

That's significant for someone's first time on a national show. He was natural/comfortable, very likable, and is obviously smart growing up with that Kennedy political education. He wasn't egotistical either. That's all really impressive given everything else he has.

When he jumps in, he's going to glide like a Canadian on a frozen lake. He has so many similarities to Junior, I actually think he'll have even more opportunities.

Caroline Kennedy is a borderline moron and was sent to Japan to be away from the public eye because she's embarrassing. her son is a hybrid orthodox Jew and catholic. Not very electable for the population imho unless nepotism gets you all the way to the finish line. Massachusetts has politics stuck in the late 1800's so I'm sure a Kennedy will have a senate seat in varying degrees for next couple hundred years here.

Ted murdered a woman and got thrown out of Harvard for cheating and was senator for life so there's always that.

I'm interested in reasonable conversation.

And yet you're on r/conspiracy

I'm choosing to be an optimist this morning- a lot people like the Kennedys. Even conspiratorial-minded people.

The real weird thing is that you think democracy actually is a thing xD

The real question is? Do you really care? He will be another puppet.. No way anyone make it to the top without being a sellout.

If he runs, sure I care to hear to what he has to say.

Well it's going to be great things! Than when his in the office.. same shit will repeat..

Holy shit, his profile from the wiki page (picture) is so strikingly similar to JFK's profile.

Yea, Franklin is the best president ever.

Well, he was a founding father, which is why I derived the name.

Haha I get it, just stirring the pot on a Monday morning.

I'm sorry, misspelled George Washington and Teddy Roosevelt

I'm sorry, you misspelled Franklin Roosevelt

The little known, 2nd and a half President.

Snuck in between John Adams & Thomas Jefferson.

Franklin as president would make Bill Clinton's sex scandal look absolutely tame. In fact, it'd make Clinton look like he wasn't trying hard enough.

And in case you don't get what I'm talking about, read this

Any Washingtons who might come up wouldn't be George's descendents, since he never had kids, only step-kids. In fact, his lack of children was part of his appeal as the first President, since he wouldn't be able to establish a new monarchy. Instead of being a dad, he was the "father of our country."

There is lineage everywhere.

I hope he doesn't. I won't vote for a dynasty, no matter the party affiliation. No Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, Reagans, etc. need apply to the Whitehouse. We should ban any direct descendants or close relatives of sitting presidents unto the 7th generation, or something like that.

Not even if that pedigree is built on fighting power and the establishment?

Not even if that pedigree is built on fighting power and the establishment? To the point that your family has a history of getting assassinated by the establishment? To the point that the very family hides their kids from celebrity and establishment influence and educates them on on civil and political service outside of conventional thinking?

This sounds very much like a family that thinks itself privileged and stationed above the riff-raff it aims to govern. "Take up the white man's burden", as it were. And really, what American political dynastic family is built on fighting power and the establishment? I don't see that in any of them.

If you want dynastic leadership, elect a king (or queen). At least be up front about it.

I will note that there is something to be said for a constitutional monarch with little real political power, as they have in the UK. It provides a nationalist/patriotic figurehead largely divorced from politics, as well as the fairy tale media pageantry that many Americans do indeed desire.

Or you can just make shit up. I mean, it sounds like might be a part of gay mafia...

Well now, if you are talking about the premise of the thread, ie that Clinton somehow arranged that fatal plane crash - I agree with you. I think that is waaaaay out there. I was simply complaining about another Kennedy (or any other dynasty) running for office.

To be fair, how "close" is great nephew?

Pretty close - one step away from grandchild. The point is, just like Hillary and Jeb, the biggest reason he is getting serious consideration is because of his family name. And, for the record, although I voted for Obama twice, I would not vote for his wife nor his daughters for high office, for the same reasons. I don't want "royalty" to have a place in our political system.

Idk I think Clinton still has another one in her

That's definitely Conan O'Brien.

I can't imagine being him and seeing or hearing his family just go one by one and still have the courage to run. Honorable.

Especially when he should be fully aware that he's running for a patsy job and nothing else..

He’s only 37 but he looks so much older in that photo...

If I were him, I wouldn't go anywhere near politics. It seems to be detrimental to a Kennedy's longevity.

He looks like he's been the targest of EMP recently.

Don’t fly drunk in the rain

Suck it Jon Jon

One less Jew hating Kennedy in the world, hope he enjoys hell with his family

Viva la Israel!

He was pretty stupid if you ever heard him talk.

What was suspicious about the crash?

Oh damn your talkin Chemtrails!! I knew it

Did you just have a seizure?

You don’t see the connection? Very obvious

Chem trails connecting the dots

more like these comments connected by bots

And as people were pointing out the day after this guy made his statement, it is completely based off of assumptions of his piloting skill and almost nothing concrete. There were literally pilots and airports in the area who had said that visibility was terrible and this guy was if that the weather was "just fine" and "a little hazy".

I'm a Pilot IRL. There is nothing suspicious about that crash.

He put himself in a bad training environment, he was poorly trained and woefully unprepared for night flying across water, let alone in an aircraft that wasn't equipped to do such a thing.

He crashed due to being lost and totally unprepared for the flight itself and to handle spatial disorientation. (Where in cases of just suddenly moving your head at night flying makes you think the plane has rolled violently) That's how we died,

If there is something fishy going on the military would of taken care of the investigation, this time there were multiple radar sources confirming his location, height and speed showed he was totally lost out there and was flying erratically before his demise.

I'm a Pilot IRL

proof?

If there is something fishy going on the military would of taken care of the investigation

oh like 9/11?

proof?

I don't feel like doxxing myself today.

What machine are you on?

Then don't use bullshit anonymous anecdote not supported by anything, especially in the face of a confirmed FAA flight specialist, all the while you're being heavily upvoted.

Well, the irony here is....

You've said you're a confirmed FAA Flight specialist, but you haven't bothered proving it.

Question: what proof could he provide that would satisfy you and prevent cries of falsification, while also not getting him doxxed?

seemed pretty well typed out idk why the downvotes

Thanks. But it's because I'm going against the narrative here, nobody here can argue my points so they downvote me to hell.

More likely it's because you said you're a pilot without proving it. It's extremely common to lie about things like that on the internet to strengthen your argument, so it's rather silly to expect people to blindly trust you.

Seems a nonsense reason to downvote, whereas it's known how thin-skinned this place is when the narrative is challenged.

Is there any group out there that gets as much flak as the donald. Do you not have anything to contribute other than singling out a group of people for their beliefs and belittle them every time you open your mouth. Are you a bigot or just a racist posing as a bigot. You all sound like little hitlers saying how the jews are bad and destroying our society. Put the donald into concentration camps where they won't affect society.

Read your response again. Slowly. Then go back and read like every thread in this sub. Always keeping in mind what you said.

The lack of self-awareness is astounding.

Someone posts completely baseless speculation about Le evil Clintons? "I accept this completely anonymous internet stranger."

A pilot posts an informative comment containing pertinent information? "PROOF YOU'RE NOT A DEEPSTATE SHILL!!"

Fellow pilots have your back!

Because it goes against the conspiracy and is the official story people have a hard on for down voting both never mind if its turthful

Goes against the "Hilary Clinton has killed everyone and ruins everything" narrative this sub swallowed roughly one year ago, completely unrelated to certain groups and a certain sub brigading this place hard for over a year.

Yeah, well there are photos of Hillary in the same country that day.

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED FLAT EARTH CONFIRMED

Lock her up?

Buttery males?

MUH RUSSIA

• would have taken care of the investigation. "Would of" is not a phrase and is never correct.

if I were to do it all again in high school I would of learned how to break that bad grammatical habit of mine.

It's never too late to learn to correct your mistakes. You're responsible for yourself now, and the words you use are how the world sees and understands you. Hold yourself to a higher standard.

Quite the surprisingly insightful comment there. A good lesson for many to consider.

Where in cases of just suddenly moving your head at night flying makes you think the plane has rolled violently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_indicator#/media/File:VMS_Artificial_Horizon.jpg ? Surely a pilot would know how to read this?

sigh Another armchair expert I see.

Let me tell you this. If you're flying an aircraft, pitch black at night, where you have no reference of your position at all. And then you suddenly FEEL your aircraft is pushed upsidedown?

What are you going to do? at that exact moment? Instantly react to your survival instincts and correct the orientation of the aircraft, wait till you've figured your bearings and check what something on a instrument panel is saying? All while you feel you've been pushed upside down.

If you were even unaware of this phenomenon like you were 5 minutes ago. I'm sure you would of picked the first option.

If you've gone as far as looking up pictures of a artificial horizon indicator, you could go further and look up Egypt Air Flight 604 and find what I said is exactly how a commercial pilot made the same mistake... Despite rigorous training to ignore such feelings otherwise.

I'm not a pilot but I've spent a fair amount of time in DCS and while I understand what you're saying, I would assume that pilot traning is specifically designed to train pilots to rely on instruments over instincts and reactions.

Nop. In this situation absolutely. Generally pilots situations like Instrument Flight Rules

Nice!. I play a lot of DCS too. Best sim out there imo. Theres a massive module sale on the official website by the way.

But to answer your question. In this situation, absolutely. But generally, no. Pilots deal with instrument failures more than you think, so we're trained to critically evaluate our readings when something doesn't feel quite right about it. And try to figure out what is wrong and maybe other alternatives to get that needed info, or to double check it.

As pilots that blindly trust their faulty instruments are the ones that get killed.

Nah, not true. Pilots are taught to fly visually (at the level he was at). You spend a little bit of time "under the hood" (this is where you wear blinders, kinda like a horse, so you can't see out the window and can only see your instruments), but it's not emphasized. He wasn't undertrained. He wasn't supposed to be flying in that situation and it cost them their lives.

It's not until you go for your instrument rating, which allows you to fly in inclement weather, that you really focus on instruments intensely. Also, as the other guy states, there's commercial pilots that are highly trained that still sometimes revert back to instinct. Human instinct is strong as fuck. It's not surprising that someone without this training at all would have problems with disorientation.

The pilot obtained his private pilot certificate for "airplane single-engine land" in April 1998. He did not possess an instrument rating.

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001212X19354&ntsbno=NYC99MA178&akey=1

He wasn't an instrument rated pilot. While it's taught at the PPL level, it's not emphasized as much because you should only be flying in high visibility with a PPL. You don't go into intense detail with instruments until you go to school for your instrument rating. Shit, trained commercial pilots have problems with spacial disorientation and they've spent countless hours training to trust their instruments. It's not a surprise that someone trained to fly primarily from visual cues would fall back to instinct over instruments. In fact, it's more likely.

Also, he was flying a plane solo he wasn't familiar with...huge fucking mistake that you're taught to NEVER do. In fact, an instructor told him NOT to do it before the flight!

Also, he was flying with a broken leg. He literally walked to the plane on crutches! Kinda hard to push that flight critical rudder with a broken leg.

Also, while not illegal depending where you are, he made no contact with ATC. This is really stupid if you're a new pilot...which he was. Hell, it's stupid if you're seasoned, but especially so if you're new.

There's no conspiracy here. Just a cocky pilot that got way in over his head.

Didn't he have his flight instructor with him?

Nope. Was just him, his wife and his sister-in-law.

Though... His instructor offered to fly with him for free, but he rejected the offer. So you're not that far off the mark.

i mean...not a pilot. but why was the fuel relay switch cut off? not something that would happen accidentally or during the crash. Why did they recover everything but the passenger seat? Why did his plane suddenly nose dive? if they knew where his plane was, why did they spend the crucial hours searchning 90 miles away from where the wreck actually was? why the huge discrepancies between the FAA and the coast gaurd/navy reports ?

I mean, i dont think anyone is arguing the conditions were shit. who killed jfk jr is a great doc on youtube. uses nothing but new clips from the time to build the narrative and the problems with it. there are some very odd things about much of it though.

And this makes it suspicious? Planes crash all the time, regardless of weather.

Really? That is not what pilots who had just arrive from the area said.

Pilot here. There was far more to it than weather. In flight school we spent a good bit of time on this case study. He basically did everything he could to ensure that flight would be a disaster.

You're spreading nonsense and disinformation about things you don't even remotely understand.

Meyer stated, "Nothing of what I have heard on mainstream media makes any sense to me...The weather along his flight was just fine."

What did he say about the NTSB report, which is all that really matters, not what the mainstream media, which is allowed to lie by law as this sub has taught me, says.

Source for Edward Meyer's Statement: https://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg20670.html

Aren't all crashes suspicious?

No. Many crashes have very clear causes.

Nothing, but you know that with the sudden Clinton posts here being botted to the Frontpage something interesting is happening in Trump' s Whitehouse today.

It was announced that wikileaks had something big going down on the 15th; A few minutes before midnight Assange tweeted a string of random characters, like a key or hash of some kind. Not sure if anyone deciphered it yet.

I'm eagerly waiting for your excellent analysis of the situation. While I'm sure Putin would have enjoyed using Polonium on all those Poles, the crash instead has the earmarks of Hillary's method of disposing of an inconveniently talkative Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. Perhaps someone has radio navigation aids data that could show the plane was drawn off course?

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/16/1643150_re-analytical-and-intelligence-comments-polish-plane-crash-.html

The polish plane crash that killed basically the entire upper government and where that video of gunshots were recorded at the crash site?

Link to the video? The link in that WikiLeaks post is dead.

I don't know what that actually linked to, they're talking about someone in particular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcpRBNOarw You can find this video and several other mirrors of the supposed wreckage and gunshots mirrored for what I'm referring to.

Holy shit

Yeah, if you read up on the aftermath, this is not very subtle. It's a little disingenuous to even say it was a "crash" without suspicious quotations around it. Regardless of whether that video of gunshots is real, and if the guy who took it was actually shot, then hospitalized, then his machines unplugged and stabbed to death in that hospital, regardless the Russian response to the crash is very very revealing.

can I get a link to this whole story? never heard of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

thank you

Deep state couldn't have another president try to audit the Federal Reserve.

We lost the twin towers, pentagon and wtc7 records. 71 LEOs and dozens of other social workers in 9/11. Funny how 3 trillion missing from the budget was being looked into. The 4 billion payout Silverstein got was chump chabge.

Was it 4? I always thought it was 7b for some reason

Silverstein claimed that but only was awarded the 4b

Poor guy /s

Lol

I have heard many theories..don't upvote just curious. Why would the powers that be want the Kennedy family to suffer so much?

He limited the federal reserve bank and reintroduced the gold standard, then 6 months later he was shot and then the first thing the next president did was recreate the federal reserve.

None of what you wrote is true. JFK eliminated silver certificates. That's the only monetary change he made.

Call me crazy for real facts but EO 11110 eliminated silver backing in favor of treasury notes. That's exactly the opposite of you claim

In Hillary's case it was so she could be Senator.

Kennedy pissed everyone off

Pro civil rights Anti CIA Anti fed reserve Went after the mob hard (mob money helped him get elected) Cuba Humiliated the Soviets (kgb actually helped him get elected) Anti Vietnam

That’s a shitload of money and power against you

And the number of times he turned down proposals signed by all joint chiefs.

Kennedy pissed everyone off

So they killed him, then made him feel worse by going after his family for decades after his death?

That'll teach him for sure. Bet he won't do it again.

LPT: If you’re last name is Kennedy, don’t be a popular politician.

At the time we had a family friend give birth to a little girl named Kennedy and not long after the plane crash happened. I remember my dad saying "you might wanna rethink that name"

Your

Or really anything. Look what happened to Kennedy: she started out on MTV as a rising star, then the Goo Goo Dolls wrote a terrible song about her, Kurt Loder made her read Ayn Rand, and she ended up on Fox Business.

And she gave head to a microphone.

Add it to the Clinton body count. They are part of the deep mafia that owns the DoD, CIA, MSM, etc.

MSM

THANK YOU. That's what everyone is missing. No one stops to thinking why out of hundreds of senators, congressmen, etc. 90% of the media is focussed on a small group of names that keep circulating through out the media to push them onto public consciousness (The Bushes, John McCain, Obama, Kerry, Clintons, Bushes, now Trump)

It's called a positive feedback loop.

You mean like how McDonald's burgers make you hungrier?

Lmfao, god i hope this is sarcasm

No, it's a conspiracy. Moron.

Ahhh yes, she controls this mighty force of initials but cant win an election

Got it

Cool. Not defending it. You're just in the wrong frame of mind for this sub.

They didn't rig enough votes. They were arrogant and thought Trump didn't have a chance. Like Hillary said, she "doesn't even think about Trump anymore". That was before she lost.

Removed. Rule 10.

It's called a conspiracy.

Courtney killed kurt

She's got a lot to think about while she's busy selling novels in Costco next to the salsa samples. Hopefully the truth comes out and she's put into prison or executed after a short trial by a group of her peers under lawful circumstances following federal law.

Open the Cuban missile crisis wiki.

In the aftermath how they mention that the Russ president was "lucky" to stay two more years in power and was "left alive" unlike ones before him.

Ironically makes no mention of Kennedy getting killed only a year after it...

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/topmindsofreddit] Top Minds Crack the JFK Jr Case. The culprit? Hillary, of course.

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

It actually gets a lot weirder. For example her husband was presidentt when he crashed and the search and rescue was taken oveer by the militarry. On top of that, they couldnt find him, even though local news stations werre mapping on their shows where the plane would be (and was). The navy and airforce were going in literal circles for days I believe. Then there was funny business with a backpack and flightt logs.

I was a kid at the time, but i remember Jr. was on TV alot and i didnt really know why. There was a big deal being made about this plane ride and then.... well history

Same here. I don't think I even understand how much of a political star he was. I just knew who he was and how handsome he is. Have you seen Caroline's kid (Jack Schlossberg) who looks to be coming into politics? He's even hotter and looks super smart. He reminds me of Jack Jr a lot.

Dead Kennedys. Best band name ever.

Someone should get on that.

First runner-up: Kill Lincoln

His wife was pregnant as well.

What is the Clinton death toll up to these days? I find it ironic that San Juan's mayor can falsely proclaim, "Trump is killing us" and it is the lead story on the teevee's national news, but never a mention of the long list of suspicious deaths associated with the Clintons.

No sure English is your first language but its TV not Teevee.

No sure English is your first language but its TV not Teevee.

Or, in your case, it is: The Magic Box that does my thinking for me.

I don't wanna go out on a limb here....but i think that was intentional

Could be, but lots of international people on reddit.

Oh of course, it just reads like someone that knows english. Maybe they use the TeeVee app and it autocorrected. Hell idk

Jesus Christ this sub is pathetic. Is every single conspiracy orchestrated by Hillary alone? Did she fake the moon landing in Area 51?

I think the objective to this post is merely to show you how early Hillary began benefiting off the deaths of others. Whether or not she herself is implicated in said coincedence.

If that's your honest analysis of this post you need to work on critical thinking. This posts goal is 100% to further the narrative that Clinton is a boogeyman who can simultaneously kill anyone and do anything but also couldn't win an election that would have been stupidly easy to rig.

Eh I think you're just on overly defensive brainwashed guard dog pleb.

How many people do you personally know that have died in plane crashes?

Now go through one of those ridiculous 'Clinton bodycount' lists and tally how many plane crashes they have lost friends, enemies, and coworkers to. Then convince yourself it is all a statistical fluke.

Personally I have trouble convincing myself.

Oh, I'm guessing that for you to make this comparison you are also friends with thousands of people that each fly 100+ times a year for decades on end.

Also flying on private aircraft is way more risky than commercial flights. Especially when there is only one pilot on board.

I can tell by your dismissive tone you didn't look. We arent talking about 2 or 3 plane crashes here

Seek help

I thought we were here to discuss...do you have any info suggesting we should stop talking about it?

Burden of proof is on the accuser. I’m not saying she didn’t do it because I couldn’t possibly know for sure. I’m saying this sub has become r/HillaryforPrison2

Well I don't think we should just cast it aside immediately though i definitely agree

All these bodies but she couldn't beat Trump.....

she couldn't beat trump because America doesn't have democracy.

If wasn't electoral college trump would have lost but the founding fathers set up a system was the rich elite have to final say on who is president

It's a classic propaganda-induced paradox.

The opposition is, at any given time, incredibly powerful and on the brink of collapse from their own stupidity depending on what and how someone is spinning them to look like.

What are you , an oblivious fool? Get your head put of the sand .

Stop it. He flew a small plane into a storm and lost the horizon. Every time yall say "B followed A. Therefore, A caused B" you run further our into the weeds.

Hey guys! I found the party pooper! He brought extra party poop!

But honestly, we could all use so level headed remembering from time to time

but we are in /r/conspiracy where facts and data be damned we want to speculate that the world is being controlled by something deeper and more elusive. because how dare our lives just be this random and boring!

That's so weird because in my experience, looking at facts and data led me here.

Not surprising. Starting with conclusions and moving backwards for evidence confirming your conclusion will do that

The only time it is okay in /r/conspiracy to actually approach things tentatively is when it's one of the folk that push their political agenda (like Trump or Bannon). Actual, legit evidence towards sketchy shit doesn't mean anything, Hillary Clinton killed this guy in 1946 as a fetus!

that storm was clearly man-made

Sounds like it was wo-man made

Strong enough for a man, but made for a woman.

No, man made climate issues are fake news. Except for that place in alaska. Where they control the weather and make global warming to keep the nwo in power.

The nwo. Hulk Hogan is going over brother.

You don't think our federal government influences the weather patterns?

The US has done it since vietnam and only since the Geneva convention was it "illegal" to manipulate the weather, but even in that clause does it only state that " "widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury" is disallowed.

Those in power argue that manipulation of the weather is therefore allowed as long as it has no long-term impact on the zone.

I think you have some basic facts wrong there....

He flew a small plane into a storm and...

It takes a special level of stupid to say that and still think nothing suspicious.

Why dont you go ask the fine folks in /r/flying and find out then? The stats say small planes and storms do not fair well. Was Stevie Ray Vaughn also killed in a conspiracy? Buddy Holly? Please...

SRV was clearly an Eric Clapton hit job.

there is a reason that low-vis flying is a separate license.

Source: i fly.

/r/conspiracy doesn't need any facts or proof for anything concerning Hillary. They only demand facts when someone says something negative about Dear Leader.

You're in the wrong sub with that nonsense

I thought I was in TD2.0, am I not?

Nah it's pretty non partisan here. More like the people vs the elites. Sometimes it resembles WayoftheBern 2.0

You're making my point because WayOfTheBern is TD3.0 at this point.

You made u/psyderr ‘s point in being in the wrong sub.

Why? Because you disagree with them?

Its not worth the back and forth. Look at the downvotes throughout the thread. Objective comments are getting huge downvotes. It not shills anymore, its become too partisan. I agreed with you in you saying this place has always been non partisan. Its the opposite now. Which is pretty fucking ironic since most of the people gravitating here are so inclined to bash this sub in the first place but wont hesitate to post/comment when it fits their narrative. Their easy to spot when they say shit like “you guys,” excluding themselves from the community. Fuck em.

I agree except for one thing. It is shills trying to make this sub partisan

Touché. I’ve posted about that very thing so I def agree.

Then why is does the sub seem to lean rather pro-Trump when he is basically the stereotype of a corrupt CEO? Dirty deals, refusing to pay his contractors because he can get away with it, lives is a penthouse suite decked out in a tacky amount of gold, etc.. You'd be hard pressed to find someone as blatantly a member of the elite than Trump.

Trump is terrible. This sub doesn't lean pro Trump

Literally every time a new scandal breaks, people are claiming that the deep state is trying to discredit Trump (Despite the fact that he would be, at best, part of a splinter faction if not part of the main group). I'm constantly seeing posts in the sub about Trump making decisions which for most, are obviously stupid, but people are claiming it's the lead in to something big (see Trump's 'coming storm' comment). Plus, there's the fact that people seem to be paradoxically think that the Vegas shooting was a government conspiracy, but for some reason Trump wouldn't be involved.

The deep state is an unelected power structure. The president is elected. He may be involved but it's not necessary that he is

What are you talking about, baselessly chastising this sub and building a narrative that it mirrors TD has been a troll talking point since Pizzagate.

Hah that's true

One of my good friends around this time was a cargo plane pilot rated in single and double engine passenger planes (Beechcraft 200's, Piper Navajos), as well as the larger cargo jet planes he flew (Dassault Falcon 20s). He was also a pilot instructor, and taught at a local university's aviation school before it closed.

We went up a few times, and recreated some of these situations in the single engine planes he had access to at the university, and understanding what went wrong so that if it happened to him, he'd know what to do. Stalling, finding the correct glide speed, training oneself to look only at instruments, etc. testing out how to explain and demonstrate these things to his students.

There were four of us who watched MNF together every week, and those other 2 guys were so sick and tired of us dicussing aviation, they finally told us to STFU and go get a room.

All pilots practice their emergency procedures.

Yes. Very good. He was recreating SPECIFIC scenarios from the news to pass on lessons to his students. And took me up to go through them with me to make sure he was explaining it to a student level person, not another aviation expert/pilot.

To me, a pilot, that makes no sense.

If he’s a flight instructor and he doesn’t know how to teach to students that are new he should be discussing that with his supervising instructor, not a layman.

To me, as a trainer, it makes great sense to get a layman's POV, considering you are dealing with students who have never flown a plane before, and are taking "Aviation 101".

But, hey, all I do is train adults every day, what do I know?

No, I’m pretty sure (((Hillary))) used her super secret telekinesis to pull the plane straight into the ground.

I know this because if you take the 73rd word from every page of her new book and scramble them up, they spell out “I killed JFK jr and totally did 9/11 plus Benghazi and I also helped Obama found ISIS because we are both secret Muslims.”

No, no, Hillary Clinton orchestrated Kennedy's murder just like she manipulated the system to become the 44th and 45th President of the United States. She can't be stopped!

If you are going to sabotage a plane doing it in a storm is a good idea no?

Hillary Clinton confirmed to possess weather control machine.

Seriously. People always conveniently leave out the part that he wasn't nearly experienced enough of a pilot to be flying when and where he was flying that day.

My dad was a flight instructor for 30+ years, and I remember him saying how stupid it was for someone of his experience to be flying over the ocean in those conditions.

I suspect you're probably playing "devils' advocate" with this post due to the tone of it, but it does bear analysis from a parsimony perspective because it's helpful to justify why a "conspiracy theory" can legitimately be a rational argument despite parsimony:

The concept of the post hoc fallacy is a part of the toolkit of parsimony (colloquially Occam's Razor) which is meant to exclude options that are based on correlations that are not necessarily causal. Logically, an event following another isn't necessary causality. But, this doesn't mean it couldn't be causally related, either. At best, parsimony is a "rule of thumb" which is used to limit the number of tenuous associations made in logical arguments. That rubric is very efficient at cleaning up a logical argument because it excludes these kind of contingent claims which depend on an implicit assumption.

However, the limitation of parsimony is that it, itself, becomes fallacious when it is used to oversimplify the facts to a point they become inconsistent with reality. The final check of parsimony is the consistency with the data from the environment. A post hoc fallacy operates by the assumption that the more tenuous connection is the one that is perceived as more "complicated," or... more accurately... a remote possibility of the connection being valid. If that possibility is not remote, this assumption is wrong.

At this point, we need to account for the facts. There's actually a lot of evidence that's relevant. To name a few examples, some planned others enacted, Operation Mockingbird, Operation Northwoods, COINTELPRO, CTR, ShareBlue. There's all these times the CIA has manipulated governments around the world and covered it up for decades. There's the fact Obama has repealed a ban on domestic propaganda.

It is important to realize that, at this point, the public is so far "in the weeds" that nobody can claim to be certain of anything being causally related merely from the selective disclosures we are given. But we do have proof that there's a web of lies, deceit and concealment of information. Therefore, the "mainstream narrative" itself must be treated as suspect because it can be easily manipulated by the government and businesses to present a narrative that promotes disinformation.

Parsimony works well when there's a high degree of consistency. But we do not have "knights that always tell the truth" so this isn't highly consistent. And the inconsistency isn't a trivial case of "bad faith" such as where the "knights always lie" either. Instead, we have an intelligent deceiver that acts as "knights that sometimes tell the truth and sometimes lie." The story is altered strategically to manipulate the course of the reasoning that people relying on parsimony will perceive. The scope of historical investigation is limited by convincing the public "history is boring" and distracting them with games.. The goal of this Orwellian manipulation is evidently creating a delusional sense of normalcy, covering up crimes and causing the public to ignorantly contribute to the cause by mistakenly identifying the culprit as an innocent party.

We must formally reject the idea that parsimony is the universal panacea to irrational claims. It may be useful, but it's a rule of thumb that fails when "plausible deniability" is the environment. What we may be reasonably sure of is that powerful people really can be evil enough to do things like this. Ruling that possibility out is simply willful ignorance or willful complicity in the deceit game.

It's hilarious that you think ShareBlue is a CIA operation. Is Daou a secret agent?

ShareBlue is run by David Brock. Brock is a known lackey of George Soros. Soros is big time donor and friend of Hillary Clinton. Clinton has known CIA ties. There's definitely a chain of connections there.

What you're saying is literally incoherent.

Someone hasn’t been paying attention for the last year, I guess. shrug

Can’t fix willful ignorance.

Wow, so we were on vacation when when this all went down. Every TV station was talking about it. I dont remember much but there was something centered around the planes black box and how retrieving it would be hard or impossible. I also remember my dad stating that he must have been close to figuring out what happened with his dad. They (my parents) also mentioned the curse of the Kennedy's. This all led to my interest and curiosity of this subject

Small planes like the one he was flying don't have a 'black box'. They do have emergency transponders, but those are just to help locate survivors.

Then maybe thats what i was remembering; that there was no black box. Forgive me. I was about 12 or 13 at time and only remember little

Lol so now Hillary killed jfk jr. ?? Was she also involved with Stalin, Lenin and Trotsky? Wait she was the second gunman on the grassy knoll too...

I seriously wouldn't doubt it, you can't put anything past the clintons.

Where's this guy when you need him?

https://youtu.be/6QuDMmb47Vw

Crisis actors are really hilarious. The acting is definitely worse than a low budget 80s porno flick.

Crisis actor? No, he's a camera man for CNN. That video cut off before the anchor outed him.

You guys give her and her family waaaay too much credit.

It's like everything and anything that could've been manipulated by her and her people has to definitely be her fault.

He started the worlds first independent politcal blog magazine to go against the establishment . Probably ruffled enough feathers to off him for it.

Add it. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.

Thanks for pointing that out. Wiki is most definitely not a reliable source. The people backing it (paying millions per year by the way) have their own agenda.

Growing up in MA I remember when his plane crashed, wasn’t it all fog/weather related and not really that suspicious? Just tragic luck?

If you want an eye-opener, read up on the subject because the crash was, in reality, very strange. Far too many oddities to simply dismiss it as an inexperienced pilot screwing up. Just one example...the FAA is mandated to begin a search for a missing aircraft within minutes of it disappearing. But...they waited 15 hours before launching a search and even then they sent search aircraft 100s of miles away from where John's aircraft was known to have been when it disappeared off radar.

No kidding? I was pretty young when it happened 10 or 11, so I remember the news stories, I’ll have to look back into it

They're not mandated to do shit. In fact, since he was flying VFR, he wasn't even required to tell anyone where he was going and where he was.

In the US, under VFR rules, it's perfectly legal to hop in your plane and fly to another airport without talking to anyone (granted you're departing and arriving at uncontrolled airports). No air traffic control. No radar. No transponder. Hell, your plane isn't even required to have a working electrical system if it's daylight.

Yes... Reason.

It was not just fog. I lived in the area and was way older than you.

...how do you know how old they are?

He was inducting his sister in-law into the Mile High Club. His wife was at the controls.

Please don't listen to /u/1865. This person has no idea what they're talking about. Nobody was required to search for him because he didn't file a search and rescue plan. In fact, he wasn't talking to ATC at all, nor was he required to. He made a series of stupid mistakes that hot him and his family killed.

He literally walked up to the plane on crutches. You absolutely need both feet to fly. He flew a plane he wasn't familiar with. Dumb!

He trained in a 182, if I'm not mistaken, but purchased a complex aircraft he had little-to-no training in. Dumb!

He flew into inclement weather that he wasn't rated to be in. Dumb!

He didn't file a flight plan. Not illegal, but Dumb! (Given weather conditions)

He didn't speak with ATC. Dumb! (Given weather conditions and time of night with low visibility)

He ignored an instructors advice to not do the flight without an instructor, since he was unfamiliar with the plane. Dumb!

He ignored advice to fly with a co-pilot, since he wasn't familiar with the plane. Dumb!

Imagine hoping in your car with a broken foot, on a rainy day with no windshield wipers. Then you don't tell anyone where you're going. Then NASCAR driver Dale Earnhart Jr stops you right before you drive off and says 'Hey, not even I would drive under these conditions'. But you're like screw it, I have a date to keep! It would be no conspiracy that they'd find your car overturned in some ditch the next day. This is the flight equivalent of that.

Buy that's not what happened at all. Why are you lying to people?

Really? Are you a pilot? Because I am.

Did you do a case study on this incident? I did.

Did you read the AOPA articles or NTSB report on this? I did.

Don't be so quick to point out your own ignorance.

You're lying. Its not ignorance to call someone who considers themselves a "professional" a liar. I'm sorry if that's offended you and maybe calling you a liar is the wrong terminology, maybe the right terminology should be "lose with the truth".. I consider the las Vegas chief of police a professional but also think he's being " lose with the truth"...much like you. Your arrogance doesn't intimidate me.

I will gladly change my statements if you can show me the lie. Care to share?

i love the certainty that i have over this. everything declared here is true. case closed, zero conspiracy.

i hate the uncertainty i have over other so many other things.

How dare we question the death of popular political figures!

He wasn't a political figure. He was running a magazine and had never run for any office.

Source?

See NTSB report https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001212X19354&ntsbno=NYC99MA178&akey=1

Fascinating read. Couple things about your comment jump out as a bit incorrect from my understanding anyways.

1. He trained in a 182, if I'm not mistaken, but purchased a complex aircraft he had little-to-no training in. Dumb!

According to report he DID receive a sign-off to fly the accident plane:

The pilot obtained his private pilot certificate for "airplane single-engine land" in April 1998. He did not possess an instrument rating. He received a "high performance airplane" sign-off in his Cessna 182 in June 1998 and a "complex airplane" sign-off in the accident airplane in May 1999.

1. He ignored an instructors advice to not do the flight without an instructor, since he was unfamiliar with the plane. Dumb!

I don't think I found this on the report, in fact, the CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) that signed off on his "Complex Aircraft" rating with the accident plane had this to say about Jr.'s experience flying accident plane to the same location Jr. was flying that night:

The CFI had made six or seven flights to MVY with the pilot in the accident airplane. The CFI stated that most of the flights were conducted at night and that, during the flights, the pilot did not have any trouble flying the airplane. The instructor stated that the pilot was methodical about his flight planning and that he was very cautious about his aviation decision-making. The CFI stated that the pilot had the capability to conduct a night flight to MVY as long as a visible horizon existed.

1. He literally walked up to the plane on crutches. You absolutely need both feet to fly.

Mixed information on the report but his orthopedic had the below to say, and from my own flying experience (not much) if you can apply brake in a car during an emergency situation, you can fly a plane.

The pilot's orthopedic surgeon stated that he felt that, at the time of the accident, the pilot would have been able to apply the type of pressure with the left foot that would normally be required by emergency brake application with the right foot in an automobile.

The CFI stated that the pilot had the capability to conduct a night flight to MVY as long as a visible horizon existed.

Which it didn't on the day of the crash

1. It doesn't take many hours to get a sign-off. It took him over 10 years to get his PPL. 10+ YEARS! This will send off alarms in any instructor that worth a shit. For comparison, it took me 8 months to get to the same point he was at in his flight abilities, while working full time.

2. The instructor says he had the capability to fly the route. That doesn't mean that he would react properly to unforeseen circumstances. He had so little hours of actual solo time that it's highly unlikely that he ever faced a confusing situation previously. Therefore, it's extremely likely that he wouldn't have reacted properly to an emergency situation.

3. It depends on the plane. Much like cars, all planes have different pedals that require different pressure. In an emergency, say a rudder control issue, you may need a good deal of pressure on a pedal. I've never been in any plane that was a soft as a car brake though. If you need assistance walking with crutches you damn sure shouldn't be the sole pilot of a plane.

You make good points but I was just highlighting what appears to be a bit of misinformation and exaggerations on your op.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2010/july/pilot/10-mistakes-jfk-jr-made

So essentially this but even worse?

1) No, no one was required to search for them but considering that family was waiting for them at them at the Martha vineyard airport they were to set to arrive at and when they didn't arrive on time they immediately notified the FAA one would think a search would be started asap instead of the 15 hours it took to start...Also what happened to Petty Officer Ted Burgen? The first responder so to speak who claimed he spoke with John on his flight meaning there was prior contact with the air traffic controller...He was immediately silenced. Wanna know what happened next the Pentagon took over.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/12/christopher-condon/what-actually-happened-to-johnf-kennedyjr/

2) John as you state wasn't rated yet every instructor he ever had would beg to differ.. John started training in 1982 and was rated for and did not stop training until April 1999. His instructors thought he was "very good". At the link you will also find he was certified for a " complex plane" and that 6 of his evaluations were done at night and there were no problems with his abilities.

https://www.ntsb.gov/about/employment/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001212X19354&ntsbno=NYC99MA178&akey=1

On that alone you can see where you are mistaken in your evaluation of his abilities and performance. Since you are a pilot I'm going to post a video for you to watch which I'm pretty sure won't make your head hurt as much as it did mine. I can't even tell you how many times I had to pause it to research what he was saying so that I could better understand avionics. Let me know what you take of the technical portions of the video rather than the conspiracy portions..Remember that at the time of the accident John was a 20 year flight veteran...This wasn't some guy saying "fuck it, I do what I want.".

https://youtu.be/Vehk03v23y4

1) This link is nonsense. The investigator believes fuel selectors are made in a way to prevent accidental switching to the off position. ALL instructors will tell you that it's extremely easy to accidentally flip to the off position. Turning to off won't make the plane just dive into the ground. that's utterly ridiculous.

2) From the report, it's obvious he was not even close to being a veteran pilot. Years don't matter in aviation. Flight hours is what matters. He had VERY little. To make matters worse, he started his lessons in the 80's and finished in the late 90's. JUST TO GET HIS PPL. Most people do this in 3-6 months. Why? Because any instructor will tell you that gaps in training is very bad. It makes it harder to retain the information. This means you'll have to constantly go back over information that should have already been assimilated. I would never get in a plane with someone with a record like his. It's far too dangerous. He was not a veteran. Shit, he was barely a pilot. He had only 72 solo hours. He had only 36 hours in the plane he died in. These are novice hours. He had no IFR rating at all.

As far as that video, it's more complete nonsense. I skipped ahead to where he talks about the flight, but tapped out quick. His knowledge of how fuel selectors work is all wrong. It's incredibly easy to accidentally flip to the off position. So much so that instructors hammer it into your head during training. Also, if why all the stupid voices to make his points? It's because he can't use technical knowledge to make them.

I would suggest you go to /r/aviation and ask some pilots and instructors about his points he made. You'll find that they'll all think the video is laughable. If there is a specific segment of the video you want me to comment on just tell me the timestamp, because i'm not wasting 2 hours watching this dumb shit.

Hey, its all cool man. I'm not here to convert you. You want to believe it was pilot error...I believe its much more sinister than that. We all have pur thoughts. What you're not allowed to do is push your narrative as biblical truth when other pilots and those actually close to this story don't buy the official line. Take care man.

As to you pointing me to the aviation reddit....you haven't participated in a aviation conversation in 6 months (I scanned all your posts wish I could have gone further back) so forgive me if I don't take your opinion for much. Like I said I'm not here to convert you but you sure do seem to have a mighty high opinion of your skills and knowledge over others. That I noticed from your posts too.

I don't get your logic. You believe that since I don't post in a specific subreddit I don't know what i'm talking about? That really makes sense to you?

Also, I made another account that I specifically use for aviation on Reddit. Hence the reason you stopped seeing posts there from this account. That's really irrelevant though because, again, I told you to ask other pilots/instructors in that sub so that you don't have to just take my word for it. If I wasn't confident enough to say it I wouldn't point you to a group of people that could easily prove me wrong.

Again dude...You have YOUR OPINION. Others have theirs. Other people again that are close to this story don't buy Tue official story. I personally don't and my opinion fair to say doesn't mean much to you, right? Well..same goes for you're with me. This doesn't make us mortal enemies. Just means we disagree. I'm sure well come across another story we agree on...its a small reddit world.

It matters how one forms an opinion. Verifiable facts vs. unfounded conspiracy.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I don't know you. I'm just contributing knowledgeable information based on the NTSB report and my own knowledge in aviation as a pilot. If someone posts something that doesn't add up then I'd take it into consideration. Nobody has done that though. You don't have to take my word for anything. Not at least trying to talk to other pilots/instructors before believing random articles from non-pilots and youtube vids by non-pilots won't help though.

I'm definitely not your enemy. I don't have enemies.

Sorry broseph but you're not this planets lone pilot. Like I said other pilots don't agree with the official story. If your stance is that your opinion is valued over theirs than that's all you. You feel no one else is capable of research than again that's all you. YOU have one opinion...OTHER PILOTS have others.

Let's take 911 some people believe some guys in a cave did it. Others like architects and engineers for 911 truth don't.

See what I'm getting at? We're We're at a cross roads and we're not heading the same way. Just try to not silence others just because you disagree. You're not the authority and beyond that no one can verify your credentials. You're some guy on the net just like me with opinions.

Be easy brotha and I'll pray detectives never surround you again gums drawn. =) haha much love man.

"Your not this planets lone pilot"

Once, again, that's the reason I've been saying ask these questions on /r/aviation where pilots and instructors are. I only stated facts. Fact - He was not a proficient pilot, which his logbook clearly shows. Fact - He was flying as the sole pilot while using crutches. Fact - He had almost no experience in the plane he was in (less than 10 solo hours).

I haven't attempted to silence anyone. I've simply stated verifiable facts.

You were offered verifiable facts as well. You didn't like them so you called it nonsense. Haha

Alright bud...let's just stop here.. Now we're going in circles. Big hugs man. I'm going to look for a new story.

Cheers

I called them nonsense because they aren't facts. They were assumptions about aviation made by non-pilots. Peace.

Have you watched this yet?

https://youtu.be/Vehk03v23y4

I just tried watching, but it's utterly ridiculous. He's just rambling nonsense. Making up dots and then connecting them. Why would you think anything this person says is credible?

"So, they're trying to make us think there was no flight instructor. That means there was one. Okay. Makes no particular sense, but okay."

da fuq?

Yes, obviously take the majority of the video with a huge grain of salt, but since it's one of the few pieces that really dove into the details there are many things worthwhile contained in the video.. most notably all of the press conferences, and the fact that all of the reporters knew the location of the crash because they got the information about the beacon location, yet the government saying that location wasn't important, refused to acknowledge the crash beacon, and refused to search the crash site for almost 24 hours, despite the becaons location being exactly where the plane went down.

So why was the fuel selector valve switched to off? Identical to the Egypt Air crash when a terrorist stormed the cockpit. He was by all accounts a meticulous and well rounded pilot.

I wasn't in the plane. I don't know why any switches were in the position they were found in. I stated what I do know as 100% fact. He was not a well rounded pilot and his logbook reflects that. Fuel selectors can very easily be accidentally switched to the off position. That's why checklists tell you to check it so many times during a flight.

Also, you comparing a large commuter plane to a small craft is like comparing the handling characteristics of a Honda Civic to a Formula 1 car. Just because you're proficient in one doesn't mean your proficient in the other. He had less than 10 solo hours in the complex aircraft. That's what we call in the military a shower shoe.

I was comparing the fuel selector valve being switched to off, which seems a pretty surefire way to bring down a plane, or at the very least indicate a probable engine fire or fuel leak.

Okay, now you're being ridulous. He was nowhere close to having the hours needed to be an instructor. The fact that you said that means you don't know the requirements. He had 72 hours of flight time TOTAL.

I like my NASCAR anologies, so here's another one. If his trek from non-pilot to instructor was compared to this past Sundays race, he flew the equivalent of about 5 laps in his entire lifetime. Yet, you're talking like he's Dale Sr.

"Features he wouldn't have even used on a flight he had completed hundreds times before."

Besides the fact that he hasn't logged enough hours to fly anywhere 100 times. That's not how planes work at all. You can't hop in a complex plane and say I just won't use things things I'm unfamiliar with. You'll die! 100% guaranteed.

You are mistaken. He had over 350 hours total flight time, 100 hours of which was solo.

I should have been clearer. The 72 hours is solo time that I was referring to. That's very low time, and less than 10 hours in the complex aircraft he was in. He wasn't even remotely close to being an expert aviator. He was also several stages from an instructor. Again, it took over 10+ years for him to completed the lowest and easiest stage - PPL. He had huge gaps in training. There's so many red flags for this flight, which is why so many schools use his flight to teach safety. He made so many of the mistakes you need a student to be aware of. They don't have to jump from case-to-case to show a bunch of different safety issues. They can get many of them covered in this single case.

Guess he's famous now for making thousands of pilots safer.

It's ironic that people will trash the Clintons on this board for being a powerful political family with deep ties in government, but the Kennedy's are being paraded as some noble house that serves the people, even though there is just as much shady shit in their past. The family fortune was built on bootlegging

Well NASCAR was also started because of bootlegging. I'm sure you'd find quite a bit of overlap between the trump and NASCAR fans. Them both being anti-government and all.

Trump is definitely not anti-government. He certainly has had no problem using eminent domain laws to his own benefit historically, he's increased the size of our military budget substantially, and he's made his contempt for the first amendment pretty clear.

/end thread

And he had been drinking dude.

Watch Dark Legacy 2 if you'd like some info on the ridiculous amount of tomfoolery that went down that morning.

He never announced that he was going to run.

Yeah, I was an adult when Hillary ran. Lots of people I knew were pissed that she was running, because 1. she's not a New Yorker and 2. there wasn't anyone running against her that could possibly beat her.

I'm pretty sure I'd remember if she was running against a Kennedy.

The same lie about Kennedy being a front runner keeps getting posted almost monthly.

Looks like there's a big Hillary push by the RUBots.

Suspicious plane crash or plane crash? I can't stand Hillary and there's more than enough dirt on her as is without making her out to be Blofeld or something.

Besides, if she really was that dangerous and ruthless, don't you think she'd be in the White House and not Trump?

DAE Hillary pizza-eating murder witch, while simultaneously needing a guard with an Epi pen nearby at all times, lest she lose consciousness because she's a weak and frail grandmother?

Give it up, she lost, she's not running for president anymore, you can go slander Elizabeth Warren instead.

Many people don't remember that Obama lost his run for state senator first time around. There was a popular politician that was a shoe-in to win that had to step down from running in order for Obama to get that first politician position of his career.

You people need some serious fucking help.

This Again? Oh well, I guess somebody has to do it again. Kennedy died in July 1999. That’s a year before the NY primary. Kennedy hadn’t even announced and the whole conspiracy is based on a 1997 poll. That’s like claiming that if Mark Zuckerberg or The Rock die tomorrow Trump killed them cause they figured on Presidential polls.

Here’s snopes on the “suspicious” crash.

Go home r/conspiracy you are drunkenly mixing your vodka with moonshine again.

That's basically what I was going to say. She could have moved anywhere to run for Senate, why would she have to kill someone first?

Seriously, it's like, it had NOTHING to do with the fact that John Jr. was not licensed to fly at night, but decided to anyway? These people need to get a grip on reality.

The coincidences of death attached to the Clinton is ridiculous. Is there any other person in the world tied to so many “mysterious deaths?” What’s her body count up to these days, anyway?

I have seen videos about how George W. Bush was behind the crash.

He went "missing" for several days when JFK Jr. died...even his own staff had no clue where he went.

I've seen it speculated that he was forced to be a part of the assassination so they would have "dirt" on him if he didn't stay in line...also these sick fucks do everything ritualistically...since poppy Bush was clearly involved in the original JFK assassination, it fits their MO to have his son be involved in the death of Jr.

Watch Dark Legacy II.

So much anti hiliary stuff lately, I wonder what they are trying to distract us from.

Hilary Clinton killed all the dinosaurs.

Hot true. She did sell them the cigarettes that killed them, though.

For the record any time you try to add that onto his Wikipedia page it immediately gets removed

"Suspicious plane crash"

Uhhhh, no. I'm a pilot and I can tell you for a fact that there was nothing at all suspicious about that crash. I'm guessing you don't know what a rudder is and why it's critical in flight.

A lot of conspiracies are due to ignorance and failure to educate themselves on the subject

This isn't really about that though. This is about keep her name in people's minds instead of people actually running things.

Really convenient that there was a viable candidate to take his place.

Always found it weird that they say that planes are the safest way to travel but for some reason everyone around the clintons tend to die in plane crashes.

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/dark_legacy_ii

I love how people are trying to say it was just a regular plane crash , how do you explain all the other convenient kennedy deaths then?

GWB had a hand in JFK Jr's death according to John Hankey

Is it even true that he was the front Runner?

This sub is all making up bullshit about Clintons now, isnt it?

This place is fucking absurd.

How was he a front runner when he never declared his intention to seek office?

His crash was due to incompetence, and in true Kennedy fashion he managed to kill others.

Kind of like how Biden was the democratic front-runner in 2016

I don't know. If I were going to get rid of my opposition I'd probably push them into a Metro train.

Frank?

Hillary Clinton crashes planes at will now too? You're a fucking idiot.

Removed. Rule 10.

I was there on the Cape when this happened. No, it was not "suspicious", the weather sucked that day.

This is some real T_D shit right here

I come here to read conspiracies, not details from The_Donald memes.

You know he was not rated to fly by instruments and was in way over his head given the climates prevalent at the time of the crash

ITT partisan Trump voters don't know how to fly a plane.

I come here to read conspiracies, not details from The_Donald memes

It is amazing how many Ny politicians seem to die.

Now THIS is the stuff I come here for. I can get behind this way better than some mysterious reptiallian sect of satanic Illuminati pedos

...how could he have been a "frontrunner" when he was actually never a candidate??

The seat was his if he wanted it. It was an unassailable Democrat spot, 100% controlled by the party.

All the "Nothing to See Here!" comments below suggest there is something to see here. News reports cite "bad weather", but the fact is that weather reports on the night of the crash — July 16, 1999 — cited "haze or mist and visibility of four miles".

The original reports I heard mentioned a cloudless, moonless night. Not good for a pilot unqualified for IFR.

I recommend watching "Who Killed JFK Jr.?" It's a documentary on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vehk03v23y4

Yep. There are many problems and inconsistencies with the JFK Jr story. It was all swept under the rug, just like Vegas and many others.

He was the favorite to enter the race and win and it appeared that JFK Jr. was going to flex his Kennedy political muscles... And then he died. What could have been? Well he probably would have won the seat and if so, there would have never been a Senator Clinton or probably a President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton. I think JFK Jr. was a big threat to the Middle Road/Corporate Democrats that took over the party in the 70s/80s/90s.

We are under a bipartisan oligarchy. The differences in the left and right are nothing more than political theater.

I personally subscribe to the theory that W was involved in this. There are good videos that explain it. Most notably, JFKjr was planning to do a final expose on who killed his father in his new shiny magazine, which he named George. The thepry goes that W killed Kennedy as his final initiation into the Enterprise, the worldwide criminal-nazi syndicate which has been run by the Bush family since WWII.

Damn, Hitlery kills again. But this time, before her husband even left office. How brazen.

Looking at all the weird death stuff around all the people who were competitors or enemies of the Clintons -- just can't make that shit up. It's like they should be Bond villains.

Her announcement to run was done at "Pindars Corners". That has major importance and energetic meaning. The leader of the Earths Illuminati is called the “Pindar“. The Pindar is a member of one of the 13 ruling Illuminati families, and is always male. The title, Pindar, is an abbreviated term for “Pinnacle of the Draco”, also known as the “Penis of the Dragon”. Symbolically, this represents the top of power, control, creation, penetration, expansion, invasion, and fear. The holder of this rank reports to the purebred Reptilian leader in the Inner Earth.

http://in5d.com/reptilians-and-the-council-of-13-2/

You can edit a Wikipedia page, as long as you can provide sources for your info. If something is missing, add it.

It honestly wouldn't shock me if Clinton had something to do with it. It's not exactly below her to screw over and kill people to achieve her goals.

is it just me or does she look like Bram Stokers dracula.....played by gary oldman....

Kennedy would have also stopped Bush Jr and the plans for 9/11

Did they happen to mention that the conditions were so bad his flight instructor wouldn't go with him?

He didn't want to go himself; he knew he wasn't qualified for anything but VFR, and it was an inky black night over the Sound. The rumor mill said the missus forced him onto it.

im not even here for the replies. instant upvote. if corrado soprano liked the kennedys. thats good enough for me.

I would think the Democratic Party would have liked John J much more than Clinton. Thus this would be a Clinton thing not a party thing.

Also see Senator Paul Wellstone another plane crash victim of Hillary's.

Place the military-intelligence industrial complex behind Wellstone's death.

No less than five people associated with the Clinton's have died in mysterious small plane crashes. They are experts at it.

You could argue that this explains why Ted Kennedy wouldn't endorse Hillary in 2008. The Clintons tried very hard to get his endorsement with both Bill and Hillary reaching out to him several times. Instead he backed a young Obama who had little experience.

Of course the explanation of his endorsement could have less conspiratorial reasons: health care. He wanted it in the 90s and the Clintons, with Hillary spearheading it, couldn't deliver. He knew he didn't have much time left and wanted it done before he died. Instead of the wonky Clinton he believed the inspirational Obama stood a better chance of getting it passed.

Why do they always want to kill the Kennedys? That poor family.

I feel like maaaaaayyyybe Giuliani's combination of cancer and divorce helped too.

The shield did it. Oh wait. Wrong Sub.

Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt politician in the history of the United States. There is a long list of "suicides" and "accidents" that seem to follow people who were investigating her or people around her.

As far as I'm concerned, she is 100% responsible for his death.

What does this have to do with current events and why is it second in the conspiracy sub? Wondering why something thats been touched upon many many times is now getting to the top again.

JFK Jr.'s death was due to his own arrogance. He wasn't instrument rated.

And couldn’t read a metar ...

I agree. He was so into himself he thought he could pilot a plane through a bad storm, but he was an inexperience pilot. So, he was a dipshit and overconfident. I doubt there's a conspiracy here. At the same time, I don't want a dipshit, overconfident senator. Humm?

The fact that Anthony Weiner is still alive is a pretty good reason to believe that Hillary Clinton didn't kill anybody.

He's too close to home.

So was Vince Foster, still doesn't keep people from saying she killed him.

I think she (and more importantly Bill, at that time) thought he was a nobody. Who cares, only one dead body. Bill and Hillary are snakes. Even now they are trying to shift blame from Whinno-stain to Trumpo by equating the two as both being sexual freaks, while ignoring Bill's proven cigar incident. Yup, American politics.

Oh, I'm not going to defend Hillary's honor or say that she isn't a snake. I just think the murder conspiracy theories (The Clinton kill list stuff) about her are pretty much BS.

So..:is the implication that she killed him? Is there anymore evidence to support that?

A post about Obama on /r/conspiracy?

The post will be upvoted yet the comments will be deflecting, trying to debunk the post, attacking OP, attacking the source, attacking this sub, attacking conspiracies or trying to derail the conversation about T_D/Trump.

"Organic"

I mean the last few weeks if you compared top posts with t_d and here they were oddly identical. Same memes, 4chan posts/LARPs, and straight up cross posts.

You've posted this exact comment verbatim over and over again on any thread involving Obama, Clinton or Soros. Who's the one trying to influence the discussion again?

And maybe people are starting to react negatively to yet another Hillary conspiracy theory on this sub because it's becoming tiring hearing about how an irrelevant loser who holds no elected office is somehow the ominous mastermind lurking behind the curtain of all the world's problems. Trump already beat her, but his cultists still can't move on from her for some reason.

A more interesting and feasible conspiracy theory is that a gypsy played a curse on the Kennedys. They are an unlucky bunch.

...why are you guys so obsessed with Hillary Clinton? It's bizarre.

Lol

Kennedy was a novice pilot who tried to fly by visual reckoning in unsuitable weather best left to instrument rated pilots.

Go add that?

The Intelligence community widely acknowledges the Clintons killed Kennedy in the plane crash.

I had never heard that, I thought Vince Foster was the only person the Clinton's killed. How naive I was.

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/16/1643150_re-analytical-and-intelligence-comments-polish-plane-crash-.html

Oh damn your talkin Chemtrails!! I knew it

And as people were pointing out the day after this guy made his statement, it is completely based off of assumptions of his piloting skill and almost nothing concrete. There were literally pilots and airports in the area who had said that visibility was terrible and this guy was if that the weather was "just fine" and "a little hazy".

I'm a Pilot IRL. There is nothing suspicious about that crash.

He put himself in a bad training environment, he was poorly trained and woefully unprepared for night flying across water, let alone in an aircraft that wasn't equipped to do such a thing.

He crashed due to being lost and totally unprepared for the flight itself and to handle spatial disorientation. (Where in cases of just suddenly moving your head at night flying makes you think the plane has rolled violently) That's how we died,

If there is something fishy going on the military would of taken care of the investigation, this time there were multiple radar sources confirming his location, height and speed showed he was totally lost out there and was flying erratically before his demise.

Don't think he's going to run?

And this makes it suspicious? Planes crash all the time, regardless of weather.

Viva la Israel!

Really? That is not what pilots who had just arrive from the area said.

if I were to do it all again in high school I would of learned how to break that bad grammatical habit of mine.

Pilot here. There was far more to it than weather. In flight school we spent a good bit of time on this case study. He basically did everything he could to ensure that flight would be a disaster.

You're spreading nonsense and disinformation about things you don't even remotely understand.

You made u/psyderr ‘s point in being in the wrong sub.

Meyer stated, "Nothing of what I have heard on mainstream media makes any sense to me...The weather along his flight was just fine."

What did he say about the NTSB report, which is all that really matters, not what the mainstream media, which is allowed to lie by law as this sub has taught me, says.

Source for Edward Meyer's Statement: https://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg20670.html

Nope. Was just him, his wife and his sister-in-law.

Though... His instructor offered to fly with him for free, but he rejected the offer. So you're not that far off the mark.

Why? Because you disagree with them?

We are under a bipartisan oligarchy. The differences in the left and right are nothing more than political theater.

So you should be downvoted for stating bad information on what down voting is suppose to be used for ... Is that what I understand? P.s. I had posed a question not made a statement. research puncuations.

Downvotes should be handed out very rarely. Sadly that isn't the case.

Kind of like how Biden was the democratic front-runner in 2016

The real question is? Do you really care? He will be another puppet.. No way anyone make it to the top without being a sellout.

Place the military-intelligence industrial complex behind Wellstone's death.

Kind of different, no? also, if you put the work in...

Trump is definitely not anti-government. He certainly has had no problem using eminent domain laws to his own benefit historically, he's increased the size of our military budget substantially, and he's made his contempt for the first amendment pretty clear.