Just when i think people will draw the line at believing ridiculous bullshit, they top themselves.

Oh and by the way, i killed bigfoot last week. But according to bigfoot tradition i buried him at sea. Sorry guys

I am a bigfoot, we have no sea burial ritual.

[deleted]

Hey dude! Good times at your cabin last month by the way.

Why was I not invited...?

- Stephen Hawking

FFFFuuuuuu

True, they must be sent into space, toward the sun. And it's what I did with my pet.

True, that was confirmed to me by a sasquatch I met in the woods outside Winnipeg. And they wear loggers' boots and flannel shirts... oh wait.

Don't mess with Sasquatch.

[deleted]

Ya man. How many gazillions is it that they've spent on bullets and chainguns that could have built blackboards and study tables instead?

You know how hard it is to kill someone with a blackboard...and messy!

It's stunning isn't it. Even here on reddit, where there's usually a tendency to be sceptical, they all jump on the "America Fuck Yea" bandwagon without any critical thought.

Dance puppets, DANCE!

Seeing videos of people running around and singing this morning on the news made me nauseous, not even joking

it was quite disgusting wasn't it...

I just saw another video of people signing "Na na na na....goodbye" in DC. I don't know why i keep torturing myself. I don't have cable tv so I was blissfully unaware of this level of asshollery until this morning

this may be the funniest thing I've ever read. thank you.

Pics or it didn't happen.

don't believe the fake Reuters pic that came out in 2009 if they pull it back from the shelves again

Reuters didn't make the fake pic, reuters was only responsible for the original image of OBL that was used/merged with another photo to make the fake death photo. Reuters themselves was not pushing it as a legit death photo, they were actually the ones that saw the death photo and said "hey that looks familiar, that was made using one of our pictures".

So I guess if you believe it you are retarded, because not even Reuters (who you claim released it) is claiming its legitimate. The people publishing it were pakistani TV and newspapers, Iraqi TV, and a bunch of random tabloid'ish papers like The Daily Mail and others of that journalistic aptitude.

look, I didn't put time into researching the entire background of that picture, I just remembered that I had seen one that looked like a P-shop Noob-job.. I never wrote that Reuters said it was true, I never said I 'believed it', I know that Middle East tabloids published it a lot.. you're seeing way more conspiracies in my simple posted line than there is in the age old story of that funny fake pict that had emerged at once.. I don't think inventing perceptions behind somebody's statement justifies calling them retarded.. I'll put the blame on the fact that reading a line does no convey the tone with which it should be read and next time I'll post a :) next to the sentence for peeps that can't grasp Irony.

My apologies if I was mistaken, it's just you said "the fake Reuters pic that came out in 2009 if they pull it back from the shelves again"

You called it a Reuters pic, and implied they might "take it off the shelves again" like there was something intentional Reuters was doing to re-propagate it. The manipulated fake was never their picture as you seemed to imply.

If I was misguided, my bad, but when reading your sentence again I still read it as you implying Reuters was intentionally putting this pic back into publication or something.

Cheers,

no harm taken bud, might have been read like that indeed.. English's not my 1st language sry, should've written: the faked Reuters pic...if somebody, not necessarily Reuters, pull that thing off the shelves..

I'm Muslim, and we always bury our dead in the ground. http://www.al-islam.org/laws/burial.html Something's amiss.

Apparently Muslim tradition allows for burial at sea if there is a danger of an enemy mutilating the body.

Yup. From the link:

1. If it is feared that an enemy may dig up the grave and exhume the dead body and amputate its ears or nose or other limbs, it should be lowered into sea, if possible, as stated in the foregoing rule.

I think people really wanted to become like the terrorists.

They want to string up his body, burn it, then drag it though the streets and put in a museum for everyone to remember what happens when you "fuck with America".

Source?

1: http://www.fuckfrance.com/topic/3912528/1/Discussions/What-should-they-do-with-Osama-Bin-Laden-s-body.html&replies=4

2: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=427909

3: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/58998067

4: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=673960191

5: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1860253 (This one has "chop the head off and put it in the museum" in it.)

6: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501212431AASQm5i

7: http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-eenobee-support-a.html This one has everything I said plus pissing on it and raping the body.

"a list of possibilities:

1) rape it

2) stuff it and display it at the Smithsonian

3) burn it

4) parade it through the capital

5) piss on it"

Need more?

I can keep going.

No offense, because I'm sure some Americans would have been happy with defiling his corpse, but look at your sources for this... GameFaqs, FuckFrance, BodyBuilding.com? Yahoo fucking answers?

Those aren't exactly the modern pillars of social decency, and I don't expect those opinions to be shared by the majority.

Man the news would look quite different if they reported on middle east reactions with that mind set.

Not to mention party in the streets!

STUFF HIM WITH PORK!!!!

Facebook...

Yeah. That one caught my attention too. I suppose they could assume that with his notoriety, diggers might want a piece of him to remember him by. I'm sure people can be that sick. However, I'd still say it's a very lame excuse to do so. Smells very...conspiracyish. Woudn't you say? I mean, it's not like they stopped to bury every terrorist they killed nevermind even tossing them into the sea.

But assuming they did do it out of respect to the Muslim tradition (holding that the laws in Islam actually do call for burial at sea for certain circumstances), I certainly hope they've retained some form of rock-solid evidence that the body is of the guy who they say they killed. If there is a body. The plot thickens.

I find it interesting that the US Government went to great lengths to tell everyone Osama is not a Muslim because of his violent twisting of the faith, and then tells us that they have to honour his Muslim traditions regarding his burial. Which one is it?

I'm sure they said not all Muslim fellow the same faith as osama. But there are many that do that woyid be quit upset if we did the uncivilized thing.

diggers might want a piece of him to remember him by.

I'll pay 5 bars of latinum.

Gold plated?

Gold pressed.

Think of it this way. The US Government is worried about pay back for killing him. What would pictures of his body next to smiling US Troops do?

There are so many reasons to keep his body but there are many reasons not to. If this is a conspiracy then saying they buried it in the sea is perfect. If it isn't then I can imagine this decision was not easy. Think about the discussion that has to take place.

"But if we don't show it off no one will believe us"

"But if we show it off people will think we terrible people"

Well, the point wouldn't be to show it off, but to provide proof that it really was him. I mean, don't take one with your finger in his nose, just a proper one that can easily identify the guy, you know?

Amputate its ears or nose or other limbs,

Wat.

Pretty typical post-conflict human relations. Americans were known for cutting off the ears of enemy soldiers in Vietnam weren't they?

They could have buried him in safe place. That is no excuse.

Your link mentions burial at sea as being acceptable practice.

[...] it should be lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet.

Edit, This is incorrect (see taymen post below). next time I promise not to just grep.

Context. It's why people always mistake everything religious. Full paragraph:

If a person dies on a ship and if there is no fear of the decay of the dead body and if there is no problem in retaining it for sometime on the ship, it should be kept on it and buried in the ground after reaching the land. Otherwise, after giving Ghusl, Hunut, Kafan and Namaz-e-Mayyit it should be lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet. And as far as possible it should not be lowered at a point where it is eaten up immediately by the sea predators.

Does it matter that he didn't die on the ship but on land and then his dead body was brought aboard.?

Yeah.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't really know. It's actually the first I've heard of it, this whole burial at sea thing for Muslims.

The custom was that he be buried quickly after death. This is why he was buried quickly. Being buried at sea had nothing to do with custom. That was just so that people couldn't visit his final resting place.

From what I understand no country would take the body

Do you really care what they did with the bastard? I wouldn't mind if they just tossed him out at sea alive and left him to drown.

I don't, really. But I do care that they make sure to take evidence of his demise.

They have bin Laden's relatives confirming it was him, they used facial recognition software, and they took DNA samples and compared OBL's DNA with the DNA of his sister that the US took when she died in a Boston (USA) hospital.

They said they buried him at sea. Doesn't mean they didn't actually put him into the earth below the sea. A team of divers could do that easily. That way, no one would ever stumble across his burial.

Not entirely sure that fulfills the 'traditional part', but technically you would be right. They could bury him under the earth below the sea.

But why go to all that trouble? Why not just an unmarked plot somewhere? Or better yet, just burn the fucker. I wouldn't consider him very Muslim going around killing innocents and children, honestly. :|

Would you also say that Americans killing foreign combatants aren't Christian?

Most wars have been justified/in the name of/for whatever god(s) the combatants follow.

I'm pretty sure the American army consists of people from all sorts of religions so no, I wouldn't say they're a Christian army. But I don't get why you're asking that though?

True, most wars are of a religious nature deep down, but I only think that most of the Muslim population would not consider the things he was accused of doing to be very Islamic (e.g. killing of innocents)

Edit: Oh, I'm an idiot. You meant "Christian" as in having the property of being Christian. I think killing enemy combatants is perfectly acceptable (assuming that wars are acceptable in the first place, which I really think it shouldn't be). On the other hand, killing children and women and the elderly would not be a very Christian thing to do.

But American soldiers have also killed innocents including women and children (I know most/all was accidental, but it still remains true).

Of course this major difference is that the radical Muslims (such as Osama) saw ALL Americans as the enemy...not just males...they were not targeting 'innocents' by their definition. The term 'innocents' was something that we (as westerners) gave anyone who was not in active combat...but to them anyone with the western ideals were the enemy, and therefore not 'innocent'.

[deleted]

I do understand that most Muslims don't see it that way...my point was just that some do, and it is those ideals that they were following. It is like the difference between Orthodox, Catholic and Anglican really...all branches of the same religion...but difference interpretations of such.

Honestly...I don't particularly care about religions and such...I just know that too often people are painted with the same large brush that the media and propaganda have taught us to. I just enjoy bringing the perspective to the argument. :)

Kewlness! I like discussions like that. But I think you and I are of the same thought: war sucks. It used to work in a world that was still new and you never knew what danger lurked in foreign lands, but now that we know what's going on, war is such a hassle. Kills quite a bit of people too.

And yeah, the Taliban dudes are a bit off their rocker. Their interpretations of the ideals of Islam are a bit more violent than your garden variety Muslim.

In fact, based on rough evidence of events that I just so happen to know of, I would say that a lot of the violence in the world is generally caused by people who have too much faith. In any religion. Those crazy Aburame Shino guy in Japan. Your Timothy McVeighs. That crazy man from Texas. Osama bin Laden. Religion. It's madness.

Edit: Aburame Shino sounds like someone from Naruto. I'm talking about subway gas attack man.

Unfortunately, the killing of women and children by US soldiers is not just a case of misunderstandings. Look at My Lai or consider the rash of rapes and sport killings in our latest wars.

My theory, which is just an extrapolation of On Killing, is that our psychological training techniques have become too effective at creating killers out of young men. Gone are the days of the Civil War, where something like 60% of shots taken were intentionally fired above the enemy lines instead of into them.

I can't look up the figure right now, but I did read somewhere that we fire over 5,000 rounds for every insurgent killed.

Everytime I've checked there was no caveat in the ten commandments. Those soldiers are breaking their gods law..

Agreed!

Kill and murder mean two very different things in hebrew.

Not argueing, but care to give me more on that one.... I think I see where you're going with this, but just want to confirm.

Seems fishy don't it?

I'm sure it'll make waves.

Oh god, here comes a tsunami of puns...

Hold your breath for the flood of puns!

THESE PUNS HAVE GONE RADIOACTIVE!

...probably too soon

Lets not over-reactor to this...

I'm superheated sorry

Lets not be too critical...

The entire story seemed fishy at first, but with this burial stuff, it barely holds water.

I don't know if you meant what I think you meant, but I loled.

:)

They are famous for destroying evidence to cover their tracks...

Nothing to see here folks.

Move along

Oh actually uhh no... Step over here so we can pat down your hot wife

Or your 6 year old daughter

The WTC sure got cleaned up quick.

They aren't even trying to believable anymore.

The list of people I know who believe it all, hook line and sinker, is pretty huge. My FB newsfeed is full of patriotism and virtual fireworks. flabbergasted

Isn't it terrifying?

Why would you not believe it, out of curiosity? They kept the body long enough to get a conclusive ID and take DNA samples, which takes under an hour. Why would they want to hold onto the body and transport it? Should they have waited a week to dump the body simply because it's fun? I'm not debating, I'm just genuinely curious.

Bin Laden was wanted because he allegedly committed crimes. I can't imagine any domestic criminal's body being disposed of so quickly, usually they want to hang on to evidence until they get all the facts together, or at least results from the DNA samples. This whole thing seems like a white-wash.

They did get results from DNA samples, that takes less than an hour. And they had all the facts together from surveilling the estate -- once they'd confirmed whose body was whose, there was no reason to keep them around.

I'm not debating, I'm just genuinely curious.

I'm not debating either I'm just taking guesses on why they might want to hang on to an important piece of evidence in one of the biggest crimes in modern history. Personally, I don't place any weight on anything the white house says anymore. I know 911 was an inside job, so whether or not they caught Bin Laden doesn't mean shit to me.

well said.

I don't think you can conclusively say that you know that 9/11 was an inside job. You can certainly believe it, but I don't see how you could know for certain.

I don't think you can conclusively say that you know that 9/11 was an inside job.

You're right, in fact I can't even be sure that Fukushima melted down. I'm thousands of miles away, all I can do is piece together information I find and come up with a hypothesis. Philosophy 101: How can we know anything for certain?

But who gets to verify the DNA? Even if they got the DNA, what are they to compare it with? Unless they already have his DNA sample from before. Do the public get to see the results? Will it be done at an independent lab?

So is mine, all my statuses are the stereotypical "USA!" bullshit, but I am just doing it in hopes that a fucking huge party breaks out... it's not working.

Next time we'll put him up in the Smithonian for a month for you.

So you would have only been happy if you personally could see the body?

Perhaps they should have put it in the Smithsonian.

They showed Saddam's sons no problems when they were shot up. Why not the most reviled man?

That was highly criticised by a number of military and political figures, including Obama. The policy for the last 2 years has been to show respect to religious customs at every opportunity to fight the ill-will generated by military operations in Islamic countries. It's better PR this way.

They're considering releasing the photos and video now but what are the odds that any of the crazies in this sub-reddit would accept that as evidence...zero percent.

Honestly, I'd accept it at 100% evidence. I already believe them 95% anyway. But I wouldn't be a septic if a red flag didn't fly when they said they buried him at sea.

Just a picture of a soldier and Bin Laden's body would suffice. I'd just like it confirmed.

But I wouldn't be a septic

tee-hee

I believe them, but when I heard how quickly they buried him, I groaned, because I knew exactly what response was coming from The Internet.

So all you need are pictures? Because there ARE pictures. I gotta add /conspiracy to my blocklist.

Yes! Please! All we need is some pictures. Not one blurry, possibly shopped image anyone can tineye to an original 3 years ago, but maybe a few from different angles. Maybe a video. I don't know. Something. Pics of gtfo as they say around here.

Don't be so jumpy...people are trying to think and assimilate all this information. I knew that it was reported that he was killed last night and I got that before I went to bed but I was shocked to find out that the body had been buried at sea.

I'm still piecing my thoughts together and reading all over the place. It's the best we can do from home.

Couldn't he just send a video to al Jazera if he were still alive?

I'm not saying he's still alive. I'm not saying he was killed at an earlier period either. I just don't understand the line of thinking that our government used here. This totally adds fuel to the "he died in 2001, etc." fire and the "he's still alive" theories.

How many other Al Qaeda operatives did they bury with respect to islamic tradition? And considering Osama was no.1 on the hitlist.... buried at sea as per islamic tradition... fuck off...

It's not an islamic tradition, just to mention. Except if he died on a ship out at sea. Otherwise, the tradition is 6 feet underground.

Or if there's risk of desecration of the body after burial.

Then why not just bury him in the ground somewhere unmarked ANYWHERE on the entire planet?

Hes not Genkhis Khan.

Because eventually someone with loose lips would let it slip as to the whereabouts of this unmarked grave, and then you would have this wonderful place for supporters to make a pilgrimage to?

Don't get me wrong, it disgusts me to see the way in which this being used by Obama for political gain (not that I think the Republicans would have done any less if they had been in power when this happened), but I think a burial at sea is the way to go here.

So you think it would be easier to try and hide a body as famous as that instead of just dropping it in the ocean?

Easier? I thought they were trying to respect his customs. Otherwise, why the 24hr limitation? They didn't state it was to avoid further conflict, they stated it was to respect his customs. And if they only stated that as an excuse to just get rid of the body quickly to avoid further conflict, what else has been said to just keep us safe? Give me a fucking break.

[deleted]

There are always nut jobs. They generally are not allowed to be effective in their aim unless it serves the clandestine organizations. Think about it if you are trying to set up a job like 911 it is a piece of cake to find some nut jobs to sacrifice themselves. They will always be there. Waging a series of wars across the planet to eliminate nut jobs is not effective in eliminating them, if that is even the goal.

it's not completely absurd to think he could still be alive and actively cooperating with faking news of his death. He's worked with the CIA before, his death may bring an end to conflicts and a transition into nation building.

I don't know if this has been said already, I just woke up to all of this and heard the news on the radio on my way in to work. I'm really not into most conspiracy theories but the first thing that came to mind when I heard this was as follows:

There must have been a deal made somewhere along the way, that the US would let him live out his life, but when he died, find a way to take credit. Between burying him at sea (wtf lame) and being found in a mansion near a military base, there are some big holes in this story.

I figure that it takes at least four inane details to deliver each little payload. I work at my friends store one day a week and I have fun playing with peoples minds. If I think that someone can take it I will look them straight in the eye and tell them something really crazy having to do with new alcohol laws. For example a guy about 21 or 22 was trying to buy a tequila bottle shaped like a tommy gun and I told him a few times that he needed to be 25 years old because of the violent connotation and that there was nothing that I could do. He was ready to admit defeat and then I filled him in and it was a jolly old time. I do this shit all of the time when I am in an energetic mood. My point is that people are conditioned to accept any ridiculous new law or idea. Anything is possible now and as long as I have a confident demeanor most people are willing to accept anything. Of course not everyone has the good humor to appreciate when they have been gotten over so is a developed skill in selecting weak targets that won't hold a grudge. Additionally I can determine if someone is going to be a pain in the ass by the time that they have passed through the front door. Likewise I believe that most people have already accepted the lie before it has been spoken. Playing it out is simply a ritual derived from their calculated weakness.

[edit] oops, sorry about the many posts. Wifi problems here.

People are evolved to believe things that other people say.

The real problem is that the gullible don't die before they reproduce

well we did give him $1 billion back in the 90s...

Under Bush, Hussein was taken down and made a spectacle of for months and months. None of it made anything any better.

Under Obama, Bin Laden is finally found and killed, and instead of doing the stupid thing (bragging about it more than necessary, and showing off his body), they instead emphasize treating his body with respect, and dispose of it in such a manner as to reduce the commotion as much as possible.

In my opinion this makes perfect sense, even though I fully understand how a lot of people are going to be dissatisfied with it. My guess is that the CIA has more than enough samples and evidence to convince anyone with a high enough clearance level, but that they couldn't care less what people discuss about it on the internet.

Frustration and genuine ignorance does not a conspiracy make.

So the evidence is to be kept by the rulers, and the people should just obey, amirite?

Judging by your interpretation of my comment, it doesn't matter in the slightest how I reply. You'll make up your own meaning regardless.

He interpreted your comment much the same way I did. Perhaps you should be more clear.

I wrote what I guessed was the line of thinking of the Obama administration and the CIA. Nowhere did I insinuate that that's how I think it should be. If you and destroyerofwhirls want to read that into my comment, that's your problem.

You're right. I didn't need to assume that that's how you think it should be. I'm just really jumpy this morning and everyone has their big star-spangled cock out.

Sorry, friend.

No worries.

That's not how the Internet works. FIGHT!

Whatever, Mr. Obama-apologist. I'm sure they decided to dump him in the ocean because they wanted to " emphasize treating his body with respect".

I guess your Black Bush can do no wrong in your eyes.

You'll make up your own meaning regardless based on the facts

FTFY

Nope. destroyerofwhirls took what I said (me guessing what the CIA probably did, and how they might have reasoned), and turned it into a statement of opinion (that I somehow said that is how I think the CIA should do it). There were no facts involved, at all, in destroyerofwhirls' reply. He simply took what I said, inferred his own meaning into it, and asked me if I defended that view.

they could have kept his body another day or two to verify his identity

i dont see how anyone can believe this ludicrous cover story

So, then, what would have been enough for you to believe it to be true? Would you trust anyone else saying "that's him alright", and the CIA then getting rid of the body?

i would believe it if they had shown it to impartial 3rd-party observers

i guess you will just believe whatever you're told in the absence of evidence?

So they can stage a military maneuver in a hostile country, losing helicopters and blowing up buildings, but they can't get "3rd-party observers" to verify their lies for them?

I don't get why it has to be more complicated than it is. They went in, after months of recon and planning, killed him in battle and decided the smartest thing to do, to minimize any kind of actual impact (I think they prioritize repercussions and revenge acts over convincing conspiracy theorists on the internet), was to bury the body as respectfully and quickly as they could. It's all over, done with, case closed. Everyone can move on.

its clear that some kind of operation was mounted, the official story just doesn't pass the smell test for me tho

'oh BTW we also found the Loch Ness Monster last night, sorry but we threw her overboard before anyone could take a look'

'oh BTW we also found the Loch Ness Monster last night, sorry but we threw her overboard before anyone could take a look'

This analogy is moot, because the very issue is whether or not the Loch Ness monster even exists. We know Bin Laden exists, the question is whether or not he's dead. It really doesn't matter if he's gone, silent and passive, because for all intents and purpose he might as well be dead. That's the point. We're just squabbling over details. Bin Laden's gone either way.

If there has ever been a reason to believe in a conspiracy this is it.

Yippers. The Pentagon, through its usual monumental stupidity, has just insured that Bin Laden will live forever.

I won't believe it until Ghost Hunters International speaks with his ghost. ;)

just wow. I call bullshit.

nah bro. everything is fine. Incoming false flag "retaliation." /sigh

Due to the number of different conspiracy beliefs out there, I'd like to propose a new rule for this subreddit. When you reference "They" or "Them" actually type out who you believe are doing this. I'd like to know if I'm reading someone who thinks the Illuminati are doing it or The Molemen or aliens.

That's exactly what they want you to do.

Or you could use, you know, common sense and critical thinking to figure out what they're talking about.

I'm sure we can all agree that "common sense and critical thinking" are not exactly the strongest points of this subreddit

That is nice if it is knowable but I have found that it is easier to study methodologies. Just like the carpenters train the journeymen the people that practice these methodologies train the next generation. I think that it is easy to see an overarching methodology that is far greater than the people who are purported to be in power. While many pawns might do things for different reasons than their controllers I believe that it is much more relevant to look at the actions. If you wear a mask long enough you become it, fruits and trees and all of that.

[deleted]

Convenient as in nearly ten years, trillions of dollars, six thousand American troops, and tens of thousands of Middle Easterners later?

I would like to know what would have been the proper thing to do?

Drive him through Washington in a pope-mobile so everyone can see?

Freeze him in carbonite?

i think the rest of the world super powers might want to validate a US attest.. but can;t now!

Stash him under the Pentagon, in the 'undisclosed location.'

Put him in a morgue. There were photos of a beheaded Saddam, he is Muslim and no one gave a shit about "offending Muslims."

But Muslim clerics and many, many people criticised Bush for that. It was a minor international incident. Obama's goal has always been to improve the American image in the Middle East. So this wasn't anything about offending Osama's beliefs, it was about not damaging the reputation of the US, which had just stormed into an allied country.

As if our reputation is not damaged ! Like that one act of kindness will change their direction of thought.

Yeah right! The reputation of the US is damaged. We annihilate the fuck out of Muslims every day. This wasn't some civilian, this was Osama Bin Laden, he is accused of killing 3,000 people. There is still no proof that this even happened. There is still a video of a house that Osama was supposedly held up in. Osama has been dead for years. REELECTION BID!

maybe an independent autopsy and verification of his ID????

but ya know, why not just believe whatever the government says without question instead?

i really dont understand how you can kill someone, but then out of respect for their beliefs, dispose of the body in 24 hours. you fucking killed him, its a little late to start respecting the mans beliefs

They don't give a shit about his beliefs. They just didn't want a backlash for doing something "Unholy" with his body and they didn't want to have to deal with him being immortalized with a grave. It is the smartest thing they could have done with his body and they did it quickly so there wouldn't be time for people to debate.

They got rid of him at sea to cover the fact they didn't get him at all. He died years ago. Kidney failure whilst on the run from the us military = death. The pakidtanis have known him dead for years.

Sources please

Yeah. Remember what happened when they held on to Hussein's sons for eleven days. Nobody wants a repeat of that mess...

its all to convenient right before 10 year anniversary of nine eleven, I even imagine the speech thats been written for Obama to read out.

By "right before," you mean off by four months, right?

This is similar to how people are saying -- "Convenient this is right before the 2012 election for Obama!" Yeah, 18 months before.

On the anniversary of the "Mission Accomplished" speech.

And the announcement of Hitler's death.

quick politics 101; presidential campaigns started weeks ago.

Would be weird if they'd announced that on the morning of eleventh of September

Looks like they no longer need Osama as there scapegoat; they have found Gadhafi and Syria as the next targets.

They didn't seem too concerned about trotting out other assassinated muslims. Something is VERY FISHY about this story.

Trotting out the other one's was viewed by the Obama administration as a mistake that was counter-productive in the past. New ways to deal with the killing of al-queda leaders (mostly dealing with NOT waving the dead body/pictures of it around) were in the works since the death of Uday and Qusay, and this is the first time we've seen them in action.

Interesting, yes, but I think this is far more an example of a possibly-imperfect foreign policy rather then some sort of perfect conspiracy.

To avoid that, an informed source tells me, the intention is to bury his body at sea -- leaving no evidence for a third party to examine

FTFY

I agree this is completely ridiculous. What the fuck. That is seriously all I can think right now. My bullshit meter is flying off the radar into outer space. This is fucked.

What gets me is how we have a CIA created savior cult of personality Obama killing a CIA created arch enemy cult of personality Osama. Then you have Osama at one time being the hero fighting against the previous existential enemy Communism and then literally becoming the embodiment of new existential enemy radical Islam.

How about how Bush Sr. created Bin Laden the freedom fighter, and Bush Jr. created Bin Laden the Boogeyman.

It's a little too convenient for my taste.

Did anyone else remember an interview on BBC with Benezhir Bhutto where she was asked who was out to assissinate her she responed, matter of factly with, the same people who killed Osama bin Laden?

I believe that soon after that interview was posted to Youtube it was removed...far too much info for us pions.

I believe that this story is released at this time for someone's convenience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg&feature=player_embedded

Thanks...

It seems they are stopping the wars. They announced the shakeup last week at the CIA and the DOD. This week they announce his death, because they had to do it sometime.

It's mostly likely that he died well before the 2004 election. This simply means that he can no longer be used as propaganda.

I found the coincident timing of shakeup at the top of intelligence the most interesting thing too. More interesting than the other events such as Ghadafi's kids being killed by Nato, and the birth certificate thing.

If we accept the story at face value, then it must have been the intelligence chiefs who were responsibile for identifying OBL's location. By rights they ought to be being celebrated and decorated with medals and yet they are sacked.

Alternatively if there's foul play at work, then it's still a bit too soon for the new guys to learn to pull the party line. All very strange.

shakeup? I missed that....

I'm sorry. I guess you should get a newspaper subscription, or something.

I'm sorry, i assumed that you'd be cool enough to be more specific, or link to something. That's cool, being a vague asshole works too.

Sorry, I just find it hard to believe you have not heard this very big story. Seriously, just go to google news and type in CIA shakeup. Don't want to be an ass, but I'm not your research assistant.

they didn't want to make a shrine?

i think they're missing out on something... they shoulda buried him in the pentagon. then, when people show up to pay their respects, nab them! kinda like calling criminals and telling them they've won a prize to come and collect it... presto, arresto!

just woke up, 2 things, doesn't a dna test take a couple of days to complete and a dead Osama can't reveal he wasn't behind 9/11

A DNA test doesn't take long at all, they aren't sequncing his dna. Here is a commercial site where you can get a turn around time of 24 hours

My understanding of DNA testing is that you need a previously collected confirmed sample to compare against. I haven't been following the story closely but are officials claiming they have a previously collected sample?

They compared it to the DNA of his biological sister.

You are correct, they do need something to compare it to. They took a sample from his sister, when she died at Boston Medical. They search for specific markers that would show up between related individuals (i.e. sister, brother, fater) with a 99.99% acturacy.

thanks for the info

Bin Laden "used to" work for the CIA...

You're thinking of DNA sequencing, where they map and record every part of the DNA. All they had to do here was check certain markers against the DNA of his sister (who died in a Boston hospital) and make sure they match (proving a sibling relationship). This takes maybe an hour in a commercial lab, and when a mission to kill or capture him was started, the lab would have been preparing for a test and had the markers of his sister already up for comparison.

Ah! Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear. Of course, the ones doing the testing are an independent third party lab?

Takes a couple of days for the cock suckers on civvy street. This is the big-time mother fucker they get results in minutes.

yeah and of course they HAD his DNA to compare.. loll

They had his sister's DNA which was taken when she died at Boston Medical, MA

then they can't clone him :p

Maybe so crazy bloodlust type people won't have the opportunity to make a national scene and demand he be buried backwards with pork stuffed down his throat.

aka there never was a body in the first place. this whole thing stinks.

I don't find the burying at sea to be suspicious, it makes perfect sense.

But I don't understand the whole killing him part. As far as I can tell, it was him, his son, his wife, and two couriers. I'm sorry, but they didn't shoot the guy in the head. When a man has to use a woman as a human shield to stave off death for a few moments longer, then he isn't really in a position to stave off these soldiers.

I would bet that they are torturing the hell out of Bin Laden right now in order to gain intelligence information. No doubt that they caught him, but saying he's dead allows them to torture him without any real repercussions.

Interesting theory!

Your not alone in your idea. I've heard this theory mentioned from a couple of people already.

You are so naïve... You really think they'd bury his body at sea? Right now that fucking thing is being dissected or at the very least it's being blown to shit by 4 navy seals who love explosives.

Because it's a Muslim tradition to bury a body within 24 hours the smartest thing the US could have done was to tell the world they buried him at sea so that non-radical Muslims would respect the US and that radical Muslims would be refused a memorial location of his body to worship.

Wake the fuck up.

Not only does it stop terrorists from making shrine, it stops anyone from checking the DNA to decipher whether the scientists were puppeted into verifying the DNA wrongly.

Things that dont compute : After reading http://twitter.com/#!/Reuters/status/64958648895537152

1. Which sea in Afghanistan? It is a landlocked country without seas.

2. Why take him to Afghanistan and not Saudi (where his family and x-citizenship is) ?

3. "in accordance with Muslim tradition" : There is no sea-burial tradition.

1. There are these things, they are called helicopters. There are other things called airplanes, and boats. They are all capable of going over the ocean.

2. No country would take his body if it was offered. It's too much of a pain because they would essentially have a martyr's grave for his followers.

3. Close enough. I believe if I remember correctly Muslims can be buried at sea under certain circumstances. That said, I don't think anyone really cares all that much about respecting his body.

[deleted]

I would like to point out that there is a long seafaring tradition amongst Arabs. Many non-Arab moslems also belong to seafaring nations. In the days prior to refrigeration, I'm sure that many an Arab mariner found his last resting place at sea.

1. Why must you try to put down a question with this childish answer. Does it raise your ego? Do you think questioning facts is childish?

2. Pretty sure his own family would take the body, but also sure that it wasnt being offered to them. All the martyr bullshit is just that: bullshit. They can transport the body to the US or GITMO or any other US base.

3. Anyone can be buried at sea under certain circumstances.

1. Childish questions deserve childish answers. That's not questioning facts, it's creating questioning where it wasn't necessary.

2. His family would not take his body actually. If you've read the literature on the Bin Laden family, most of his family have disowned him. It would also be a laborious task to kill him, move his body, use his body for U.S. needs (DNA confirmation), contact a family member, and have the body moved within 24 hours (as Islam require body disposal within 24 hours). That all said, the point still stands. No country wants a "martyr's grave" within their borders.

3. That was more to the point that the U.S. has stated that his body was disposed *as per Muslim protocol" which require burial as the only means of disposal for a body, unless there is reason to believe the body may be dug up. This means that burial at sea due to such special circumstance.

Read this story. This has all the facts I need. This is what good journalism looks like. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=7D181FF4-6397-4A45-8348-AC91337F22CA

The Saudis didn't want the body repatriated.

1.

was taken to Afghanistan and later buried at sea

All done within 24 hours of killing him last week?

It's certainly possible, if suspicious.

Sure, but how much "respect for islamic tradition" have we had thus far in our country-bombing-pipeline-building we've been doing since 1993?

So, suddenly when they get the most important symbol for their wars of last 20 years, they suddenly are pious in their respect to Islamic Traditions?

An organization as big as CIA / Pentagon / White House could not have made the decision and actually carried out that plan that quickly given all the possible political / logistical / military ramifications.

Indeed but this is extremely high profile. Big difference between for example, the killing of a foot soldier and a political figurehead.

Wat?

Last week? It was 10 hours before your comment.

1. Which sea in Afghanistan? It is a landlocked country without seas.

You got 'em, man! This the case cracker!

It is a logical question. I'd like to see pics/video.

[deleted]

Thanks. I read some of that on politico http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=7D181FF4-6397-4A45-8348-AC91337F22CA

but your version has more details.

I was also glad to read that they will release pics soon. I'm fine if they say "we are holding back on pics right now to let things cool down a bit". That would be logical.

I sea the problem with point 3

The CIA hired Dexter to do the hit. He works fast.

My first thought: http://i.imgur.com/mAS8S.jpg

Osama bin Laden is dead - long live Emmanuel Goldstein

The water burial is common in India, not at all common among muslims. Muslim burials are usually a wash and wrap, sometimes there's a little gathering and burial.

My source for this is an Egyptian expatriot that drives the roach coach. We usually shoot the shit over coffee.

I thought we had all agreed by now not to take what the gov says at face value.

In other words, they've lied before, they might be lying now.

Relevant.

What exactly do you expect them to do with the body? Tour it around? Put his head on a stake? I mean... really. What do you do with a body? Dispose of it.

2011 - Osama's death announced

2010 - Contrived car bomber of Times Square

2003 - President George W. Bush declares that 'major combat operations' in Iraq are over

1997 - Toni Blair elected Prime Minister of U.K.

1962 - 1st French underground nuclear experiment in the Sahara at Ecker Algeria

1961 - Fidel Castro announces there will be no more elections in Cuba

1945 - Hitler's death announced

1915 - British Lusitania leaves NY, for Liverpool

1853 - Argentina adopts it's constitution

1776 - Adam Weishaupt founds secret society of Illuminati

[edit] Damn I actually wrote Obama's death announced where I obviously meant Osama. I guess I'm on the short list now.

Also, he was shot in the face so...

It also avoids a potentially violent domestic situation. We have his followers in this country, whether they are active terrorists or not. What happens when we bring him here and also throw their customs to the wind? It has the potential to create a Patroclus situation.

Its good PR to dispose of him in the Muslim tradition. Respect the religion, not the man.

Im also sure that in the next few days we will see pics of his bloodied, broken body, which is enough to prove (to me anyway) that other 'terrorists' have been killed.

I can understand your desire to mount his head on a pike. Time to bury those feelings in history.

Obama was handed some unused credit points by the Bush administration and he finally decided to cash them in.

To everyone here who believes he was just now killed, to those who believe this sickly patsy was actually still breathing on April 30, 2011, to those who think this is anything other than a complete farce: you make me laugh.

I'm also feeling rather skeptical about this whole thing, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the Obama administration would lie about this, especially now when it really serves no purpose. It will be forgotten about by election time and it doesn't seem like they're trying to divert attention from anything else.

Anyone have a plausible theory?

I always suspected he was dead for years, but the proof was hidden to avoid a holy war supporting him as a martyr.

If what was said recently is exactly true (which I doubt), then it appears that America can simply go into any supporting country and kill a foreigner without trial or reasonable proof. Gee, that is convenient.

The reason it sounds like bullshit is because it is bullshit, and anyone who believes the official story is still a moron.

It's so frustrating assuming everything is a lie.

Guys, guys, come on! He died a week ago after being shot yesterday by a CIA/SEAL team/unidentified shooter. Pictures were taken, we know this because the white house said so, you won't get to see them and doubting their existence is a conspiracy theory and you're crazy for being so unpatriotic! There's also only a video of the alleged house he was found in, but no video evidence of him and he was given a questionably traditional burial at sea, we don't know which sea or where he was "buried" in this sea, but he was. Trust me, the White House said so.

The last thing that you want is a radical Muslim community having one more thing to rage about. In observance with Muslim customs his body was buried at sea to prevent is further desiccation due to his infamy.

I can't imagine there isn't enough video, photo and DNA evidence to go around.

Besides - if they brought a body back, theorists would just say it was a fake anyway. Doesn't really matter where it's a corpse, box of ashes or a polaroid picture.

If they'd brought back a corpse, skeptics could hire their own experts to take DNA samples directly from the body and test them in independent labs.

and compare those dns samples to what ?

as stated above, if he aint dead, he will release a video soon

if he was already dead, just consider it a late announcement. either way, who cares.

Even though he probably is dead, someone is going to release videos of his continued existence. It will definitely happen.

Everybody on the internet knows that your name is encoded into your DNA. Process the samples and you automatically know who it's from. Duhh.

And in the meantime you have a major motivating factor to piss off wannabe terrorists into action against the evil USA.

You really think holding onto Bin Laden's body for a few more days would be more of a recruiting sergeant than randomly killing villagers with drones.

Well who knows. It certainly appears suspicious, but I can understand wanting to avoid antagonising the enemy more than necessary, especially considering it would be used to recruit more soldiers.

There is a difference between simply killing an enemy, and stealing their body and putting on display. It would look like grandstanding.

There's not enough DNA in the body to enable enough tests to satisfy all of the skeptics.

Besides, WTF? Handing over a body (even someone as reviled as OBL) so every nut can satisfy his curiosity? Morbid.

Ok so he is dead. Who gives shit! The wars are not over, they are not ending any time soon. The patriot act and defense authorization acts and homeland security act are here to stay. What really has been accomplished? Fuck this. This is all about a re-election campaign to make it appear like Obama is getting shit done you and I want done. He isn't, get over it http://www.newworldorderreport.com/Default.aspx?tabid=266&ID=7743

I believe quite a few conspiracies about our current state in America and these seems absolutely feasible. I doubted how long he could have been alive in caves needing dialysis since '99. But, I also heard he was seized by United States Marines and knowing quite a few of the company's in that area they would have made his body swiss cheese.

There's widespread government corruption in Pakistan and it's been widely believed since the late Bush administration that people within the Pakistan military had been concealing him within their borders. This is why Obama was determined to initiate drone missions in Pakistan despite its unpopularity in 2008. The only people who claimed he was in a cave were South Park writers.

I had a MASSIVE side eye when I heard this.

Can't have China looking down their noses about "human rights" gotta claim our captives are dead.

Also not a good idea to have people wanting to talk to Osama and us denying them access. This is a MUCH better cover story. No recourse available for anyone other than us to do whatever the fuck we want with him and face no scrutiny.

WELL PLAYED!

Considering how secure and slow any movement of the body would be I find it hard to believe that they acted this fast to remove the body from the centre of Pakistan and dispose of it in the sea/ocean.

Haha! Since when do we give a shit about Muslim traditions? If he was truly responsible for 9/11 they would hang his ass from the top of the freedom towers and charge admission to take pictures with the body. This is just getting ridiculous!

Your elections are wonderious inventions where the common will is manifest via computers.

Your Govt then implements your will after robust debate.

Your wars, now perpetual and multiple are critical to preserve your very lives.

Osama was cornered killed and disposed of yesterday.

Yep! Took a couple of generations to dismantle Americas individual capacity for critical thought but now your reality is spoon fed by bad soap opera writers you'll stomach any shit script your fed.

I think those who write the scripts amuse themselves by trying to expand the bell curve of dumb.

The Guardian said they've got pics. I still am very skeptic, but I don't understand why they would lie about this now. Why not pull the fake news story to boost the approval ratings later on? October?

Saddam Husein's sons were left on gurneys for days while an autopsy and DNA tests were being done. WTF is this buried at sea muslim tradition?

How would burying him be any different? Are you depressed they didn't display him?

This is exactly what I thought. Already buried at sea? And people just think this is normal? I can't believe no one would even take a picture. I refuse to believe this unless there's some good evidence.

Wasn't Muslim tradition, we just wanted to get rid of the body.

I find the fact that he was shot in the face very suspicious. And now this? WTF!?! And how fast can DNA be sequenced? I thought it took longer than 48 hours.

The moment I heard the news last night, I was skeptical. I am even moreso now.

It won't make a difference, though. "Security" is still going to be ramped-up.

Seems weird that they could already have done a conclusive dna test considering that we DIDNT HAVE HIS DNA TO MATCH IT TO IN THE FIRST PLACE and that a DNA test takes about 5-10 days to perform.

His sister died in a Massachusetts hospital in what, 2005, 2006? Her body was quite famously seized by US authorities, I don't know how you could've missed that in the papers. And 5-10 days, that's 1990s talk. For $200 you can get Genetica to test you and your sibling's DNA and get a report on the match within 24 hours. That's twelve hours per test including the business' downtime, queues, processing, billing... Familial relationship matches in a law-enforcement lab take less than an hour.

I read another article a few mins after this post that said they matched it with a family members dna, didn't know it was his sisters brain. I was going to edit the post but was too lazy. Still though there have been no released pics and its very convenient how they dumped the evedence in the ocean asap accodrding to islamic "cusoms" which are apparently bogus because he died more than 600 miles from the ocean and it is a slap in the face so to speak to have not buried him in the ground. Essentually we have to take their word for it with no proof. Obama administration has a perfect record for keeping to the truith eh?

Apparently reporters can get into the Pakistani residence. Getting a blood sample from there soonish should be able to pin the time frame of the operation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488004/Osama-Bin-Ladens-body-identified-by-sisters-brain.html

Osama bin Laden's body was identified by US authorities by matching a DNA sample to one taken from his late sister's brain, according to reports

If we have DNA evidence, doesn't that mean we already had DNA to compare it? Not exactly ironclad.

If this wasn't bullshit, there would be an independent pathologist involved. For example, we'd be able to preserve slides of kidney tissue, and confirm signs of renal failure. There are a lot of other known biometrics.

bin Laden's dead, but nothing was buried at sea other than a sack of potatoes covered in a white shroud. The actual body was taken to area 51.

I would say yes, it is to avoid a final resting place so to not make a tourist attraction for terrorists. I hope they kicked his body out of the back of a cargo plane from 20,000 feet, far from the Middle East. Maybe a live grenade stuffed in his pocket.

Why not just bring him to America and prove it's him in a different way than just taking their word for it? They claimed he's being buried at sea somewhere that no one will ever know. They're basically saying, "He's dead so we'll just get rid of him. Take our word for it."

Seeing how he have been reported dead for 10 years and most likely kept in a big freezer in some military base, it would be a bit awkward to explain to anyone looking at him why he looks recently defrosted.

then you have to explain what you did with the body after you got it here. Dump it in the ocean, Sopranos style, and there is nothing that can be done about it.
I see what you're saying, but I think it's more trouble than it's worth. I'm sure they got pics and DNA samples, after that, the body is just more trouble than it's worth.

speculation on both sides, the problem is that the side labelled conspiracy is automatically dismissed while the speculation on the other side is "probably true".

I know. I honestly don't know what they would/could do with the body after they brought it over. They just seemed to hype the "we have the body!" part of the story.

Why not just bring him to America and prove it's him in a different way than just taking their word for it?

Great, give terrorists yet another reason to follow him to America and try to retake the body by force. Excellent choice.

Yeah, man, with all their ships and planes and ground troops, there's no way to stop them if they decide to invade!

The point of terrorism isn't to succeed at anything, it's to instill fear and/or create casualties. Even if they were stopped, the very fact that they tried is an act of terrorism that would scare the people at home.

But won't they continue to instill fear regardless of Bin Laden's body being disposed at sea? It seems to me that if you're worried about giving terrorists reason for doing things, then maybe you shouldn't have occupied countries looking for this one guy... only to get rid of him as soon as possible because you are worried.

But won't they continue to instill fear regardless of Bin Laden's body being disposed at sea?

Yes, but anything they do from now on is unjustified. People will be scared (they always are), but also angry. Anger is good, because it unites people, where fear alone separates them. Because most people saw 9/11 as unprovoked, it made people scared but also united them towards a common goal. If the US were to take the body back, keep it and potentially mutilate it (I haven't read anything about any autopsies, again, much likely to avoid unnecessary anger and aggravation), I think a lot of Americans could even relate to it (think of leaving a US soldier with the Talibans) and the anger would dissipate into only fear.

That's my take on it, at least.

Oh, come on. You saw people cheering when they hung Saddam. This is war. If you mounted his head on a spear in front of the white house, people would go there to celebrate victory every day. No American would relate to it, as they never related to any of the atrocities committed during these wars. If you didn't want people to be scared, why would you publicly announce high risks of terrorist attack every week? Nothing the US government has ever done was intended to stop fear of terrorism. This is no reason to get rid of such important evidence.

I'm sorry, bro. I want to believe that there's no conspiracy. I really do. I hate being mocked and shunned by the mainstream. But this shit is just ridiculous.

I don't think you understood what I wrote. I said people will be scared (they are scared), but that the only difference is whether or not they'll be more or less angry as well.

I'm not talking about the loud-mouthed air-heads, I'm talking about most of the people of the US. I think the majority are intelligent enough to realize the difference between random attacks against "the west", and specific attempts to reclaim the body of their leader, held for little reason by the people who killed him.

This is no reason to get rid of such important evidence.

You're making the blind and unfounded (and silly) assumption that they didn't acquire what they needed before disposing of the body? It's not like they actually need all of him. Finger prints, DNA, blood samples, photos, etc... Everything can be saved without having to deny Osama a "decent" burial that should satisfy the more rational Muslim leaders.

I see it as a clear attempt to minimize the impact of his death. I'm not the least bit surprised that Obama had the brains to realize that was the best way to do it. He has a track record of trying to appease those who disagree with him, without giving up entirely. This was a beautiful enactment of precisely that strategy.

I'm sorry, bro. I want to believe that there's no conspiracy. I really do. I hate being mocked and shunned by the mainstream. But this shit is just ridiculous.

It's only ridiculous because you compare it to nothing but your own expectations. If you look at things from Obama's point of view, it all makes perfect sense. He just did what he had to do, when given the chance, and tried to minimize the impact of it. Osama is dead, his body is gone, case closed. Everyone can move on.

You're making the blind and unfounded (and silly) assumption that they didn't acquire what they needed before disposing of the body? It's not like they actually need all of him. Finger prints, DNA, blood samples, photos, etc... Everything can be saved without having to deny Osama a "decent" burial that should satisfy the more rational Muslim leaders.

Finger prints, DNA and blood samples have probably been had by the US even before 9/11. The photos and the video I'd like to see, but the body would be the best evidence there is. Say I had shown up myself with a blood sample from him and claimed a reward for having killed him. Would you have paid me?

Osama is dead, his body is gone, case closed. Everyone can move on.

That I'd like to see too.

Say I had shown up myself with a blood sample from him and claimed a reward for having killed him. Would you have paid me?

But the USA don't need to show up anywhere and convince anyone. Why, then, would they keep the body? They know he's dead. Are you saying they should risk even greater backlash as well as the possible anger of the greater Muslim world for desecrating a body for... what? Having a keepsake? A memento? What you're proposing makes no sense whatsoever. What they did do makes perfect sense in every respect.

The government went into war to find this guy. It is its duty to prove to its people that it did in fact find the guy.

Hah!

While I agree that, in a perfect world, that would be the case, the problem is that the people of the USA didn't elect a government that prided itself on transparency and its responsibility towards its people.

And do tell me, how far do they have to go in this "duty" of theirs to prove it? When is enough enough? Can the last conspiracy nut demand to keep Bin Laden's body in his own fridge for the government to fulfill its "duty"?

The duty I see your government prioritizing is the duty to protects its people. Obama chose to do that in a way that might not satisfy the more paranoid citizens, but that most likely will appease a large number of foreign people and powers, that would otherwise have been angry. I'd say that duty far supersedes its duty to come to your house, to your comfortable chair, and present you with evidence that you might be convinced that they went into foreign territory, engaged a terrorist base, and killed the world's most hated person with a bullet to the head.

Wow... The entitlement...

And do tell me, how far do they have to go in this "duty" of theirs to prove it?

As far as any bounty hunter would have to. Historically, this has been done by presenting a body or a head for independent (read independent from the killer himself) verification. You are asking us to trust a government that does not "pride itself on transparency and its responsability towards its people," more than we would trust any regular person. I refuse to do so.

Obama and Bush did fulfill their duties to protect their people alright, except that their people are not the US citizens, but a handful of corporations who have been sucking the American economy dry with these wars.

As far as any bounty hunter would have to. Historically, this has been done by presenting a body or a head for independent (read independent from the killer himself) verification.

You didn't issue the bounty. The government did. Are you saying the government has to cut off Bin Laden's head and show it to itself before it can believe it killed Bin Laden?

Tell me, when a bounty has been met, does the issuer of the bounty go around town (or the nation) showing everyone else the proof as well?

Have you seen hard proof of Bradley Manning being in prison? If not, why do you object to him being in there? You obviously can't believe anything the government says, so obviously Manning is still free.

You are asking us to trust a government that does not "pride itself on transparency and its responsability towards its people," more than we would trust any regular person. I refuse to do so.

That's your choice. I'm just saying you're taking it to ridiculous degrees. I'm saying you place greater value in the government trying its utmost to convince you of every last little thing you refuse to believe, than it does in protecting the country the way it sees fit (which is the reason you, the people, elected it in the first place).

Obama and Bush did fulfill their duties to protect their people alright, except that their people are not the US citizens, but a handful of corporations who have been sucking the American economy dry with these wars.

That is a very real and legitimate complaint, but not really relevant to this discussion.

Are you saying the government has to cut off Bin Laden's head and show it to itself before it can believe it killed Bin Laden?

No, I'm saying it should present it to the American people. The ones who actually paid for the war, you know?

I'm just saying you're taking it to ridiculous degrees.

Really? Dumping a body in the sea hours after the kill is not ridiculous, but not wanting to take someone's word for it is? Imagine Bush claimed he found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but quickly dumped them all in the sea, would it have been ridiculous to doubt him? Or would it have been ridiculous of him to make such a claim without any proof?

No, I'm saying it should present it to the American people. The ones who actually paid for the war, you know?

But that's what I don't get. If Bin Laden is dead, then if anything, that's reason to put pressure on Obama to stop spending the money. And as long as he's gone, what difference does it make? Again, it seems this request that Obama must present evidence that Bin Laden is dead has absolutely nothing to do with responsibility or accountability towards the people, and everything with everyday "he has power, therefor he is corrupt and a liar" conspiracy mentality.

Let me ask you this: if Obama keeps refusing to present evidence, what is the worst that will happen? In my opinion, the worst possible scenario to come from this is... nothing. Nothing happens. People carry on with their lives, Bin Laden is never heard from again, and there is more good reason to pressure Obama to withdraw from Afghanistan. That's it. To keep pushing on this evidence thing is to risk inflaming Bin Laden/Al Qaeda supporters, risk retaliatory attacks (which are already a risk, and would only become greater) and, at worst, to pull down whatever it is they've built up in some kind of effort to ensure stability.

Under Bush, the big conspiracies were all about reasons to invade other countries. Under Obama, the supposed conspiracy is all about ending all the hostilities. Why would Obama lie about something that benefits his country more than himself (because, let's face it, this alone is nowhere near enough to ensure victory in 2012)? Answer me that, because everyone else actively refuses to. No one dares to tell me what Obama's motives are, yet they're so sure he's lying about something.

Really? Dumping a body in the sea hours after the kill is not ridiculous, but not wanting to take someone's word for it is?

Yes. In my opinion, the reasons Obama gave for doing what he did were excellent. For once, the USA actually cared about doing right, and treating someone they executed with even the least bit of respect. They collected enough evidence so that if some day someone truly doubted what they had done (that is, not just conspiracy nuts on the internet), they could present it and prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Refusing to take Obama's word is ridiculous, when he has no reason to lie about it. Everything about what happened benefits the people of the USA. It's not enough to say "but it benefits Obama too", and pretend that that's somehow a bad thing.

Imagine Bush claimed he found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but quickly dumped them all in the sea, would it have been ridiculous to doubt him?

First, you tell me how he would have justified it. A more reasonable scenario is that he would claim to have found radioactive materials that were unsafe, and had to be locked down securely. Would you doubt that? Would you insist on seeing those materials? Touching them? What would be enough for you to trust it happened?

For the gazillionth time, tell me what Obama's motives to lie are. If he has none, then yes, it absolutely is ridiculous to accuse him of lying. Not to appeal to authority, but there's probably good reason why you don't have clearance to see everything the administration and the president sees on a daily basis.

if Obama keeps refusing to present evidence, what is the worst that will happen?

Since the American public is for the most part a bunch of sheep, nothing will happen. As nothing did happen when they found out Bush lied about Iraq and Saddam. I don't want to prevent a catastrophe, just bring out the truth.

Under Bush, the big conspiracies were all about reasons to invade other countries. Under Obama, the supposed conspiracy is all about ending all the hostilities.

No, they are not. They are all about reasons to invade countries as well. We think bin Laden was a scapegoat who has been dead since 2001. We think Al Qaeda does not exist as this global organization the government presents it to be, and never has.

Why would Obama lie about something that benefits his country more than himself?

Making war does benefit him more than the country. The lies are about the threat of terrorism itself.

Would you insist on seeing those materials? Touching them? What would be enough for you to trust it happened?

Having an independent third party verify it. This isn't going anywhere if you are not willing to understand that wanting anyone else to check it out is different from wanting to do it myself.

For the gazillionth time, tell me what Obama's motives to lie are.

Fear of terrorism is what justifies the unbelievably profitable interventions in the middle-east. Obama's motives are exactly the same as Bush's motives: transferring a lot of money from the gullible public to a group of companies owned by people who don't forget their friends.

Not to appeal to authority, but there's probably good reason why you don't have clearance to see everything the administration and the president sees on a daily basis.

I do not doubt it. Of course there's very good reason why any government would not want the people to know what they do. How else would they lie and deceive and take advantage of everyone? Telling the truth would certainly make it much harder.

I don't want to prevent a catastrophe, just bring out the truth.

Well, of course. I want the same thing. I'd like for Obama to release everything about what happened, but there's a difference wanting someone to tell the truth, and demanding someone explain everything they do, because you automatically assume they're lying. I'm a big fan of transparency, but I do reserve my government the right to keep certain business from me. It's their responsibility to handle the weight of what they do, and full transparency means full weight on me as well. That's not what anyone actually wants.

We think bin Laden was a scapegoat who has been dead since 2001.

Who's "we"? Sounds suspicious :)

We think Al Qaeda does not exist as this global organization the government presents it to be, and never has.

And if this is true, again, what harm has Obama's supposed "lie" done? If anything, he's taken steps to dismantle the conspiracy about Al Qaeda. He's breaking it down, not scaling it up. All while saving face, and minimizing the impact on both fronts.

Making war does benefit him more than the country. The lies are about the threat of terrorism itself.

Yes, and the "lies" make the threat of terrorism out to be less, not greater. He's warned of some retaliatory attacks (or, at least, the media has), but overall the big message is that the world is a safer place now.

Having an independent third party verify it. This isn't going anywhere if you are not willing to understand that wanting anyone else to check it out is different from wanting to do it myself.

As far as I know, there have been other people who have verified the images. Obama's wife identified the body in Pakistan. Now you're just arguing over which third parties it is who get to see it.

Now, you tell me how this isn't going to become another birther-thing? Can you tell me you won't just accuse the third parties of lying or being "in on it"? Can you tell me how you'll know that Obama hasn't just made really good fake photos for these third parties to view? Can you tell me what will really stop the conspiracy theorists from questioning everything, no matter how ridiculous?

Fear of terrorism is what justifies the unbelievably profitable interventions in the middle-east. Obama's motives are exactly the same as Bush's motives: transferring a lot of money from the gullible public to a group of companies owned by people who don't forget their friends.

He basically delegitimized their presence in Afghanistan, and now it's up to the people to demand the US withdraws. Iraq has been illegitimate since Bush, so there's really no difference there. Obama has begun withdrawal from Iraq. Yes, things are going painfully slow, but it's not like Obama is ramping things up. Even Libya is largely an international issue, with the US merely being a part of operations there.

If it is as you say, that Obama and his friends are all corrupt, then again I ask, why focus on Obama? Why not focus on educating the public about corruption? Questioning one particular thing that happened in Pakistan isn't going to accomplish much. You're focusing on the wrong things, in the wrong way, if you really want things to chance.

Of course there's very good reason why any government would not want the people to know what they do. How else would they lie and deceive and take advantage of everyone?

Yes, it's funny how government is all about lies and corruption when it doesn't benefit you. But whenever it builds a better road to work, or improves your neighborhood school, it's quite useful, and you don't stand outside demanding full transparency on every deal made to get those things done. No, only when it's convenient do you assume the government lies and deceives and takes advantage of you. That is my problem with "truthers" and conspiracy theorists. It's all so obviously selfish and self-centered. It simply doesn't matter what the government does, you'll find a conspiracy in there somewhere regardless. And if there isn't one, you'll make one up, by claiming the birth certificates are fake, or that the third-party statements we do have somehow aren't good enough.

Time will tell if you're right. I just wonder if it even makes any difference whether you are.

Who's "we"? Sounds suspicious :)

Most 9/11 truthers, AFAIK.

And if this is true, again, what harm has Obama's supposed "lie" done?

It's not about harm, it's about the truth. But harm has been done. If Obama moved to expose the farce from day one, he could have already withdrawn from both Iraq and Afghanistan. The people responsible for 9/11 could also be prosecuted.

then again I ask, why focus on Obama?

You're the only one focusing on Obama. What Bush did was much worse.

Why not focus on educating the public about corruption?

I'm trying to educate you, at this very moment. ;)

Yes, it's funny how government is all about lies and corruption when it doesn't benefit you. But whenever it builds a better road to work, or improves your neighborhood school, it's quite useful, and you don't stand outside demanding full transparency on every deal made to get those things done.

Little did he know that he was talking to a voluntaryist. :)

But in defense of the statist truthers, roads and schools cost so much less than war and don't involve a false flag attack against their own people.

Time will tell if you're right. I just wonder if it even makes any difference whether you are.

The difference is that hundreds of thousands of deaths went unpunished and could have been prevented, had the American people been less trusting of their government. But that's beside the point. Finding out the truth is motivation enough by itself.

it is to avoid a final resting place so to not make a tourist attraction for terrorists.

I'm not a professional spy, but I think I could probably gather intelligence if there was such a place as a " tourist attraction for terrorists.".

No kidding...like the cops taking pictures at a mob funeral....this would be awesome for them.

In 2001 they decided hey lets throw this mans body out in the sea and we can just decide to tell the public when he is dead. Great idea!!

Is this not like what they did with Hitlers body to stop a shrine forming that people would visit?

Even though the death pic is unconfirmed, it's still all over the news http://twitpic.com/4se5vc

You can read into it anything you want, I'll buy the official story of not wanting to create a defacto shrine or place where Bin Laden is revered and celebrated. Thic could become a focal pint for more terrorist activity/recruitment.

This is all part of the inside job to make Americans believe in their country.

It only took a fucking decade.

100% not true ..were's the body,pictures,a piece of hair even..anything oh and you forget Obama was playing gulf Yesterday!

Saddam Husein's sons were left on gurneys for days while an autopsy and DNA tests were being done. WTF is this buried at sea muslim tradition?

Saddam Husein's sons were left on gurneys for days while an autopsy and DNA tests were being done. WTF is this buried at sea muslim tradition?

Saddam Husein's sons were left on gurneys for days while an autopsy and DNA tests were being done. WTF is this buried at sea muslim tradition?

I don't think the United States, Israel, etc. organized the 9/11 attacks, and I'm pretty sure that Al Qaeda did, but I think the circumstances of Bin Laden's death and burial at sea are pretty weird. I honestly don't even think the public evidence for Bin Laden being the guy in charge of Al Qaeda is all that strong. How do we know that he wasn't providing cover for some other bad guy, or that the guy living in his home wasn't some kind of double? And why on earth wouldn't they keep the body of such a controversial guy around for a day or two so people could get a good look at it? I guess the best the argument that he's really dead is that, if the government was faking his death, you'd think they'd do a good job at it. But maybe there's some reason they want to make his alleged death ambiguous on purpose.

Let's take this a step at a time. What the fucking fuck are you expecting them to do with the body? Drag it around the streets? That's deplorable. Bury him on US soil? We wouldn't stand for it, he would be dug up and thrown out to sea within 24 hours anyways. We got all the evidence we need, now his body is trash.

I mean

"Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea."

Source

And why the hell would they want to BURY him? First off, the U.S. does not give a SHIT about his customs or traditions. He is a terrorist. Has been at large for 10+ years. Is an international threat. And he was wanted DEAD or Alive. Second, this is avoiding a shrine being built for the ruthless motherfucker.

And the fact that it "happened too quickly."

You're talking about the United States government. The fucking C.I.A. They're going to make their decisions pretty damn quickly. Maybe during the special forces' flight back from Pakistan, they thought "Hey where should we bury this guy?"

If it were up to me, fuck it, blow him to pieces, throw him in the trash. Wouldn't you?

I mean

"Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea."

Source

And why the hell would they want to BURY him? First off, the U.S. does not give a SHIT about his customs or traditions. He is a terrorist. Has been at large for 10+ years. Is an international threat. And he was wanted DEAD or Alive. Second, this is avoiding a shrine being built for the ruthless motherfucker.

And the fact that it "happened too quickly."

You're talking about the United States government. The fucking C.I.A. They're going to make their decisions pretty damn quickly. Maybe during the special forces' flight back from Pakistan, they thought "Hey where should we bury this guy?"

If it were up to me, fuck it, blow him to pieces, throw him in the trash. Wouldn't you?

So what are you suggesting DID happen? Why should the USA claim to have killed OBL if they haven't, 10 years after the event? Wouldn't he just release another video making the USA look like idiots (and liars)? Anyone dreaming up a conspiracy here just doesn't have enough real issues in their lives to occupy them.

This is the reason to why I'm subscribed to r/conspiracy and r/christianity, your are hilarious.

Waa. You think Bin Laden wouldn't jump at the chance to release a video to call farce on this? Im just sad I cant piss on his grave unless I piss in the ocean.

Okay, first time in r/conspiracy. This thread is a cluster fuck but stick with me.

There is no way the US govt could have handled this to a point where everybody would be happy.

Yes, we got rid of the body, rather quickly but it was a FUCKING TIME BOMB. I mean, honestly keeping it would have only been worse. It's been posted and I agree, there are plenty of pictures and we more then likely got more evidence then we needed.

I hope we show it, but more so that it leaks because I don't think we want the blood on our hands literally. Yes we killed him, no we don't want to talk about it and piss more people off.

To those saying it was just to boost election status for Obama, why do it now and not a lot closer to the election?

[deleted]

I knew it would be down voted. I'm not new to conspiracy. However I just hate seeing so many people not united. All my friends are bitching over how it's W's victory, all my christian friends are bitching we didn't save him and show "compassion to all men" and then there are the people who refuse to believe it because it's not a world corpse tour where you can touch his brain. We need to stand together for fucks sake.

You really think holding onto Bin Laden's body for a few more days would be more of a recruiting sergeant than randomly killing villagers with drones.

No worries.

Honestly, I'd accept it at 100% evidence. I already believe them 95% anyway. But I wouldn't be a septic if a red flag didn't fly when they said they buried him at sea.

Just a picture of a soldier and Bin Laden's body would suffice. I'd just like it confirmed.

That's not how the Internet works. FIGHT!

So they can stage a military maneuver in a hostile country, losing helicopters and blowing up buildings, but they can't get "3rd-party observers" to verify their lies for them?

I don't get why it has to be more complicated than it is. They went in, after months of recon and planning, killed him in battle and decided the smartest thing to do, to minimize any kind of actual impact (I think they prioritize repercussions and revenge acts over convincing conspiracy theorists on the internet), was to bury the body as respectfully and quickly as they could. It's all over, done with, case closed. Everyone can move on.

Who's "we"? Sounds suspicious :)

Most 9/11 truthers, AFAIK.

And if this is true, again, what harm has Obama's supposed "lie" done?

It's not about harm, it's about the truth. But harm has been done. If Obama moved to expose the farce from day one, he could have already withdrawn from both Iraq and Afghanistan. The people responsible for 9/11 could also be prosecuted.

then again I ask, why focus on Obama?

You're the only one focusing on Obama. What Bush did was much worse.

Why not focus on educating the public about corruption?

I'm trying to educate you, at this very moment. ;)

Yes, it's funny how government is all about lies and corruption when it doesn't benefit you. But whenever it builds a better road to work, or improves your neighborhood school, it's quite useful, and you don't stand outside demanding full transparency on every deal made to get those things done.

Little did he know that he was talking to a voluntaryist. :)

But in defense of the statist truthers, roads and schools cost so much less than war and don't involve a false flag attack against their own people.

Time will tell if you're right. I just wonder if it even makes any difference whether you are.

The difference is that hundreds of thousands of deaths went unpunished and could have been prevented, had the American people been less trusting of their government. But that's beside the point. Finding out the truth is motivation enough by itself.